Teaching creationism and burning crosses on students

[Big Mac]

Actually no, they prayed that the board would do the right thing and it did. His ass got fired.

That's not what I read from a reddit article that i can't find right now.  I read they prayed he would keep his job.  Since a ctrl+F can't find pray in the article I posted which article are you basing this off of?

First two lines of the article. Granted it's not what they were aiming for but the board did make the right decision.

[LoneMateria]

Here let me quote the first line of that article for you Big Mac you seemed to miss the key words.

MOUNT VERNON, Ohio -- Supporters of John Freshwater stood in a parking lot yesterday asking God to inspire the school board to make the right decision.

Supporters of John knew that the school board was gonna fire his ass and did a group prayer so he wouldn't be fired.

[John_Silver]

Christians, assholes like this are representing Christianity ... you should be more pissed off then we are.

And some of us are.

John

[LoneMateria]

Christians, assholes like this are representing Christianity ... you should be more pissed off then we are.

And some of us are.

John

I'm glad.  The argument I usually hear here is, "Oh well they aren't true Christians".  No true Scotsman fallacy aside they are representing Christianity whether Christians like it or not.  I am glad that some of you are more pissed then we are but it needs to be more then just some of you.  That's the problem here.  A group got together to pray he keeps his job then the rational Christians in the area should have got together and came out to oppose this behavior and denounced both of them.  This doesn't happen though because peoples religious beliefs are set on some pedestal that needs to be protected rather then questioned and opposed.  This story will go largely ignored and Christians (in general) will shrug this incident off and not attempt to fix the cause of it.  That cause is irrationality is allowed to trump logic and critical thinking because of the afore mentioned protected status.

The rational Christians need to be out opposing these fundamentalist /evangelical world views as much, if not more, then atheists attempt to oppose it.  No deity will make this world a better place we all need to pitch in to do it.  Christians need to get out there and oppose assholes like Fred Phelps and his Klan of funeral picketers.  Christians need to get out there and oppose faith healers who exploit desperate people and swindle them out of their grocery money for some misplaced hope.  They need to oppose those who seek to undermine children's education for superstition and myth.  They need to oppose those who get on T.V. and brag that they are actively praying for the death of the president.  

If Christians went out in mass and opposed those who do batshit crazy things in the name of their religion we wouldn't have incidents like crazy teachers burning crosses into children's arms and telling them evolution is wrong and god did it.  These fundamentalist cults would be chocked out instead of being about 1/3 of the United States population.  (Seriously 1/3 of the U.S. label themselves as Evangelical Christians)

[/rant]

Sorry if I went off on a tangent this is one of my hot buttons.  We all have them and John I wasn't targeting this at you.  I hope you and I have many of these feelings towards this type of behavior.  If so I hope that by passing this sentiment on to you it will be passing it on to other Christians.  The more the better ^_^

[John_Silver]

...We all have them and John I wasn't targeting this at you.

I know.

I hope you and I have many of these feelings towards this type of behavior.

We will.

If so I hope that by passing this sentiment on to you it will be passing it on to other Christians...

Like you wouldn't believe. My email box is full of responses from people I have passed the message on to. Most of it quite nasty. But I still hold that, from my experience, this isn't a religion thing. Unfortunately, religion is often the armor a power-monger wears when going to battle. Just like it can be the methadone one shoots up when trying to escape from a pathetic life. Religion (particularly the mishandling of it) can inflame and embolden people already predisposed to such fits of disturbing behavior. They can even find justification in it. Religion as I see it is a means to an end. An end all of us are after. Homeostasis. Some of us lean more on science and logic to reinforce our minds and others of us rely on things that ring true in our hearts. This is just my belief, of course. The bottom line is the guy was an asshole. There isn't a defense for that kind of psychopathic behavior.

John

[LoneMateria]

Like you wouldn't believe. My email box is full of responses from people I have passed the message on to. Most of it quite nasty. But I still hold that, from my experience, this isn't a religion thing. Unfortunately, religion is often the armor a power-monger wears when going to battle. Just like it can be the methadone one shoots up when trying to escape from a pathetic life. Religion (particularly the mishandling of it) can inflame and embolden people already predisposed to such fits of disturbing behavior. They can even find justification in it. Religion as I see it is a means to an end. An end all of us are after. Homeostasis. Some of us lean more on science and logic to reinforce our minds and others of us rely on things that ring true in our hearts. This is just my belief, of course. The bottom line is the guy was an asshole. There isn't a defense for that kind of psychopathic behavior.

John

It's a shame this message falls on deaf ears.  I would expect Christians would want to clear up misconceptions about their faith to everyone else.  At least you have a unique view on many people in the Christian community.  You have to look at the nasty messages you get as a learning experience about part of the community.  

Okay so I wrote another long rant about your armor analogy and why it didn't work.  You don't deserve to be ranted to John since you are being honest in your inquiries and your explanations.  So i deleted my rant and i'm going to try to explain why I don't agree with the analogy without ranting.

First off instead of armor as your simile i'd have personally used a gun.  Same principle its not the guns fault some asshole decided to shoot a abortion doctor.  At first it looks like a good example but when you start to look at the properties of said gun (or armor which I will use since it was the original analogy) you will see why it's not.  Now I view fundamentalism and evangelicalism more as cults that use the guise of religion to spread their crazy beliefs.  What these cults do is find a way to make you dependent on them, (tell you a sinner but wait we happen to have a cure for just that sort of thing), then once you become dependent on them you are expected to follow everything they say without question.  Since they use the guise of Christianity (the most common religion in our area) these mentally abused people blend into the fabric of our society.  They have turned off their critical thinking skills when the one wearing the armor is talking.  And turn into ticking time bombs.  Though the action being looked for may not be verbally expressed it is strongly hinted to.  When these people come out of the shadows to commit a crime (which in their eyes is holy or correct) they are often times protected under the guise of religion and the freedom there of.  Religion is a powerful weapon which is allowed to be used by anyone and which automatically gives them a certain level of protection from criticism and when the shit hits the fan they are disowned by similar religions however still protected by their guise.

I may be on to respond sometime tomorrow , but my GF and I are heading back to Florida so we will be in the car 16 hours.  I will address any comments or concerns if you have any when i can ^_^

[Big Mac]

Here let me quote the first line of that article for you Big Mac you seemed to miss the key words.

MOUNT VERNON, Ohio -- Supporters of John Freshwater stood in a parking lot yesterday asking God to inspire the school board to make the right decision.

Supporters of John knew that the school board was gonna fire his ass and did a group prayer so he wouldn't be fired.

I know that, I'm saying ironically enough the board did the right thing.

[John_Silver]

I may be on to respond sometime tomorrow , but my GF and I are heading back to Florida so we will be in the car 16 hours. I will address any comments or concerns if you have any when i can ^_^

Drive safely.

First off instead of armor as your simile i'd have personally used a gun. Same principle its not the guns fault some asshole decided to shoot a abortion doctor. At first it looks like a good example but when you start to look at the properties of said gun (or armor which I will use since it was the original analogy) you will see why it's not.

I understand where I went wrong. It's a habit. Religion, to me, is a different animal. One man's religion is another man's spirituality. That's the case with me. I find myself at odds with religion as most know it. That is, the ritual observance of faith as dictated by a group of individuals who understand that faith to be from God (or another deity). Interestingly, my membership application to a large church here in Seattle remains in limbo after having gone through their high-tech membership application process because I wouldn't agree to "covenant to submit to the elder-ship". Now, in their defense, I did engage in some trickery in that I was going through the process to experience for myself things I had heard from friends who go there. Also, I think highly of the pastor of this church and he teaches fairly close to what I believe to be the heart of the Scripture. I simply believe his application process (not to mention that fact that there is a process at all) and his unhealthy obsession with Church structure has distracted him from his purpose a bit. And if I weren't a little further along in my spiritual growth I'd be downright pissed. But I've seen it before. Remember, I grew up having a pastor for a father.

That said, religion, as we know it, is the very thing for which Yeshua lambasted the religious leaders of His day. It also got Him murdered. When you said:  

What these cults do is find a way to make you dependent on them, (tell you a sinner but wait we happen to have a cure for just that sort of thing), then once you become dependent on them you are expected to follow everything they say without question.

you couldn't have been closer to the mark. In fact, it's a bulls-eye sure as I'm standing here. But they aren't the ones who said I am a sinner and need a cure. Yeshua said that. But what was this cure? The cure was His death. Now, you'll have to read it for yourself if you are even remotely interested in that sort of thing but one thing is certain, Yeshua never put the cure in the hands of men. Christians are not responsible for doling out forgiveness and salvation. They have far, far too much of a need to receive it themselves. Any honest Christian will tell you that. But I'm not here to tell that story.

For a true Believer, the day you follow the words of anyone without question is the day you stop believing. I lost my faith when I was about 17 only I didn't know I had lost it because I kept going through the motions. Thankfully, I rediscovered it in full about 10 years ago on my own. I unlearned and relearned everything my dad had taught me. But I did it apart from him. And I learned it the way Yeshua taught it and lived it. That saddest thing to me is this: Those people I learned from initially think I am slipping away. They don't like the fact that I use the name Yeshua rather than Jesus. Or that I am interested in Judaism and the roots of my faith in Israel. I have to defend my beliefs from my own people. Ironically though, I hated my dad before. Now that I have rediscovered the faith I had lost...I talk to him almost every week now. We just don't talk about my faith much.

This is why I can imagine religion as armor so easily. I can separate religion from faith. At least mine. But your gun analogy does work as well! Same deal.

Anyway, I'm up too late. Hope to continue this tomorrow.

John

[AlP]

For a true Believer, the day you follow the words of anyone without question is the day you stop believing. I lost my faith when I was about 17 only I didn't know I had lost it because I kept going through the motions. Thankfully, I rediscovered it in full about 10 years ago on my own. I unlearned and relearned everything my dad had taught me. But I did it apart from him. And I learned it the way Yeshua taught it and lived it. That saddest thing to me is this: Those people I learned from initially think I am slipping away.

Reminds me of Kierkegaard's ideas.

[LoneMateria]

alright i'm doing this on my phone so I apologize in advance for spelling errors.

@ BigMac I understand what you are saying now I misread what you said ... my bad

@ John thanx Heather and I will try to make it home in one piece.  I'm going to address your response once i get home and can type with more than two fingers.  We are almost completely on the same page though.

[curiosityandthecat]

This could probably be merged with the original thread about this: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1580

[Whitney]

This could probably be merged with the original thread about this: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1580

done.

[John_Silver]

Reminds me of Kierkegaard's ideas.

I do enjoy what I have read of his stuff. But I have only read snippets. I have a book with condensed versions of his work mixed with the works of others.  

John

[LoneMateria]

whoops i didnt see the same topic existed when i posted this.  My bad >.<

[curiosityandthecat]

whoops i didnt see the same topic existed when i posted this.  My bad >.<

It was old... no worries.