Healthcare Bill passes Senate

[Ultima22689]

Well, it's official, Obama is the first president to pass a Healthcare reform bill. A few months ago I would have thought this awesome but as of right now the bill has changed so much I have no clue what's in it. Either way i'm sure this will make it very likely he will be re-elected and the fact that the dems worked together for once to pass this bill will not make 2010 judgment day as many people have speculated for senate dems. If the bill works as good as Obama says it will then we'll definitely see a lot of support for dems I think. I don't know, what do you guys think?

[MommaSquid]

Well, it's official, Obama is the first president to pass a Healthcare reform bill. A few months ago I would have thought this awesome but as of right now the bill has changed so much I have no clue what's in it. Either way i'm sure this will make it very likely he will be re-elected and the fact that the dems worked together for once to pass this bill will not make 2010 judgment day as many people have speculated for senate dems. If the bill works as good as Obama says it will then we'll definitely see a lot of support for dems I think. I don't know, what do you guys think?

Chances are the people who voted on the bill have no clue what's in it either.  

I don't want the government in charge of my health care.  In general, I want them to stay out of many aspects of my life but that's a whole other can of worms.

[Kylyssa]

From what I've read the bill has been neutered, almost to the point of ineffectiveness.  However, little things like making it unacceptable for insurance companies to drop children for pre-existing conditions like birth or for becoming sick is definately a step in the right direction.  The health care reform is really all about health insurance reform.  And that's really what needs reforming.

In regard to fears of government getting involved in our healthcare, I'm far less afraid of government getting involved than continuing to have insurance companies involved.  

Insurance companies have had life and death power over us for years and they've been allowed to make calls and policies that would cause any elected official to fail to be re-elected if he didn't get impeached.  

If insurance companies had to listen to doctors and pay out on what doctors told them to, this whole ball of crap wouldn't be such a big issue.

[Ultima22689]

From what I've read the bill has been neutered, almost to the point of ineffectiveness.  However, little things like making it unacceptable for insurance companies to drop children for pre-existing conditions like birth or for becoming sick is definitely a step in the right direction.  The health care reform is really all about health insurance reform.  And that's really what needs reforming.

In regard to fears of government getting involved in our healthcare, I'm far less afraid of government getting involved than continuing to have insurance companies involved.  

Insurance companies have had life and death power over us for years and they've been allowed to make calls and policies that would cause any elected official to fail to be re-elected if he didn't get impeached.  

If insurance companies had to listen to doctors and pay out on what doctors told them to, this whole ball of crap wouldn't be such a big issue.

This.  That's how I feel about the whole thing, in a democracy the government is harmless and realistically that will never change unless some massive coup was done which won't happen because every person in the military, at least the massive majority of them 99.X% believe strongly in democracy if their willing to fight for it so I don't find a lot of logic in don't trust the government, if this wasn't a form of democracy then there could be some problems but I don't think we have to fear our government.

[Will]

As much as I dislike the empty bill, the last thing I'd want was for the Republicans to have a win under their belt. A neutered bill is better than a loss to the obstructionists and the corrupt.

[andrewclunn]

As much as I dislike the empty bill, the last thing I'd want was for the Republicans to have a win under their belt. A neutered bill is better than a loss to the obstructionists and the corrupt.

[Ultima22689]

As much as I dislike the empty bill, the last thing I'd want was for the Republicans to have a win under their belt. A neutered bill is better than a loss to the obstructionists and the corrupt.

Indeed, it's better than nothing and will still do a lot of good regardless of it being incredibly watered down.

[AlP]

The public option part didn't go through?

I think the main reason I like the idea of a public option is this. I come from the UK where there are both public and private options for healthcare. Everyone pays for public healthcare through their taxes and everyone is entitled to it. The wealthier you are, the more you contribute. The less wealthy you are, the more you benefit. It's not a perfect system by any means but if you're ill you can get treatment and if you want better service you can go private.

Wealthy people are in the unusual position of being the most likely to go private while still having to pay for other people's public insurance. But I'm one of those people who would be paying more than my fair share and I have to say that I would like to pay for health instance for the estimated 18,000 Americans who die prematurely every year on account of being uninsured. I would prefer for them to still be alive and I'm willing to pay for it. It's all too easy to confuse the utility value of healthcare (health / life) with its exchange value ($).

Many US health insurers seem to be publicly traded companies. That means that their primary responsibility is to look after their shareholders' interests, by, for example, maximizing their earnings. Their primary responsibility is not to their patients. How does a health insurance company maximize earnings? Offering good service to patients is one way and that's fine. In the absence of competition from a public option, I think a more effective way is to provide only as much service as they are legally obliged to and to overcharge for it. They have to pay the shareholders somehow. It's impossible to sell healthcare at fair value and still compensate shareholders. There's a conflict of interest.

If there was a public option, with a primary responsibility of looking after the interests of the public, the private insurance companies would be forced to compete with it. How would they do that? To justify charging a premium, while still looking after the interests of their shareholders, I think they would be forced to provide better service than the public option.

I would pay for the public option with taxes and benefit from having private insurance that is forced to act in my interests because it has to compete with the public option.

[Whitney]

I don't find a lot of logic in don't trust the government, if this wasn't a form of democracy then there could be some problems but I don't think we have to fear our government.

I think we can trust them to look out for our best interest to the extent that it is in the government's best interest to keep us healthy and content so we'll keep voting for them.  However, we can't trust them not to lie to us if they think the lie is for our best interest and/or they think they won't get caught in the lie.  And, sometimes they simply don't know what is best for us and/or a blanket solution can't be applied.

While I have supported the idea of healthcare reform...I have absolutely no clue what is in this bill and apparently (according to the repubs talking on cspan, so take it for what it is worth) the Democrats chose not to make the bill public when putting that option up for a vote.  So, all we have to go on is basically two political parties bickering back and forth over what the bill really does say and they both are probably lying a bit (or a lot).

I am concerned that if the bill was not written properly that health care could be more expensive if they cut out the parts of the bill that were going to help on cost but left in requirements for insurance companies to reform.  

Health care is way too expensive and if they didn't fix that problem reform is pointless....if they are going to make us all buy health insurance (as was mentioned as being part of the bill) then if they didn't include an affordable option they just created a ton of honest hard working criminals who have to choose between paying bills and having health insurance.

[Ultima22689]

I don't find a lot of logic in don't trust the government, if this wasn't a form of democracy then there could be some problems but I don't think we have to fear our government.

I think we can trust them to look out for our best interest to the extent that it is in the government's best interest to keep us healthy and content so we'll keep voting for them.  However, we can't trust them not to lie to us if they think the lie is for our best interest and/or they think they won't get caught in the lie.  And, sometimes they simply don't know what is best for us and/or a blanket solution can't be applied.

Of course, I'm not so naive to think the government doesn't lie or is some force of good in the world. I do know that the American government is completely dependent on the will of it's people and to a further extent so is every politician and as said above, they want to get re elected when the time comes they will try to make us happy.

[Sheeplauncher]

<RANT>

Sigh all i can really say to this is fuck both parties. If the democrats were trying to get real reform then they wouldn't have jammed it through in the middle of the night by making special deals just to get the 60 votes. For example Nelson the last senator to hold on basically made his home state(i believe Nebraska) immune to all taxes related to the bill forever. The republican bill was not better and both parties are pushing for horrible ideas when it comes to health care. First of all we don't have the money to pay for this monstrosity and also if said public option is put into any bill then they are violating the constitution but congress nor the courts defend that document anymore. I just hope all these reckless policies which both parties are guilty of; which is why i refer to the collective lot of them as the "big government party". If we continue to just keep creating money out of thin air via the federal reserve and spending trillions of dollars on worthless programs such as this bill then we are going to suffer greatly. The dollar will eventually fail because this path is unsustainable especially with inflation. This is one of the reasons i respect ron paul so much because he has been saying the dollar is going to fail and all these things would happen since the world adopted a fiat system. But hey once this bill fails it will wither give independents / libertarians credibility as many of them have been against the bill or will help the republicans and i would love to see the first one happen...
</RANT>

[templeboy]

Well, it's official, Obama is the first president to pass a Healthcare reform bill. A few months ago I would have thought this awesome but as of right now the bill has changed so much I have no clue what's in it. Either way i'm sure this will make it very likely he will be re-elected and the fact that the dems worked together for once to pass this bill will not make 2010 judgment day as many people have speculated for senate dems. If the bill works as good as Obama says it will then we'll definitely see a lot of support for dems I think. I don't know, what do you guys think?

Chances are the people who voted on the bill have no clue what's in it either.  

I don't want the government in charge of my health care.  In general, I want them to stay out of many aspects of my life but that's a whole other can of worms.

I live in a country where the government runs healthcare. If I get seriously injured or sick, I get treated, and I pay no bills for it other than my taxes. Sure, I can get private health insurance for a higher standard of care if I can afford it, and sure for a non-emergency operation such as a hip replacement or the like it might take me years on waiting lists, but if I have a broken leg, or cancer, I will get treated and there will be no bills.

Don't try and say the government should stay out of healthcare. Healthcare is one of the main responsibilities of a government, and the US system is simply backwards and needs fixing. If you are not happy with the public option, you pay for the private option. Whether the heavily compromised reform bill achieves enough of what it needs to be achieved is questionable. But the intent behind it is to fix a system which is dreadfully, dreadfully broken, and I fully support Obamas attempt at reform.

[Whitney]

if said public option is put into any bill then they are violating the constitution

How would it violate the constitution when medicare/medicaid does not?

[AlP]

If anyone else is feeling baffled by the complexity of these reforms, I found this summary and comparison helpful:
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/healthreform_sbs_full.pdf

[LARA]

As far as I know the bill passed has the mandate.  This might hit my family hard financially.  We aren't adequately insured right now, so I'll have to see what I'll need to change.  We are basically on the edge of most assistance programs and the government subsidies offered, if they are still offered in the version passed, will still take quite a chunk out.  I'm applying for a state plan that helps middle income people right now, but we might not quite qualify.  Since I freelance and own my own business and my monthly income is variable, it all depends on how they calculate my earnings and applying for help is a nightmare.  Jobs are very difficult to find in my area, but depending on costs, I may have to quit freelancing to fit in to the income guidelines or find full time work that can provide health insurance (But I don't know how I'm going to juggle fulltime-work along with a child who may have some kind of behavior disorder along with gifted).  My husbands work was charging an outlandish amount for health insurance so that's why we couldn't afford that.

I don't know yet.  It really all comes down to the math. I've been reading the bill to find out what it means for us, and wondering what else we can cut back on to afford it.  Just one more fire to attend to.

I always had this crazy idea that if went to college and earned my degree I wouldn't have to fight tooth and nail to make it financially.

I'm a little scared.  Just gotta keep going, though.  Maybe something will work out.