Evidence of God's existence

[angelosergipe]

From my personal virtual library :

Arguments for the Existence of God

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/does-go ... god-t5.htm

 five good reasons to think that God exists:

1. God makes sense of the origin of the universe.

2. God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.

3. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.

4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

Maibe we start with nr.1

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/astrono ... t-t132.htm

http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth11.html

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its
existence.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its
existence. that cause was God.

[G-Roll]

1. God makes sense of the origin of the universe.

2. God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.

3. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.

4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

Maibe we start with nr.1

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/astrono ... t-t132.htm

http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth11.html

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its
existence.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its
existence. that cause was God.

Might I ask what all this is based on? I read your personal library and all I got out of it was "god makes since because I have no other explination." Its like if I said Dr. Suess created the world and makes since of the moral values in the world because he wrote childrens books.

4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

I dissagree with all 5, but IMHO these two really need some explaining.

[G-Roll]

A wide variety of arguments exist which can be categorized as metaphysical, logical, empirical, or subjective. Although rarely studied scientifically given the generally held belief of religion and science as non-overlapping magisteria,[1] the question of the existence of God is subject to lively debate both in philosophy[2] â€" the philosophy of religion being almost entirely devoted to the question â€" and in popular culture.

And thus points to the whole thing being man made. "Each generation has to create its own imaginative conception of God." To quote Karen Armstrong author of A History of God.

You then list 6 different ways to interpret a belief in a god. The Personal God of monotheism is obsolete (hence dead), as is the remote Supreme Being introduced by religious philosophers. A more plausible alternative is the God of mysticism, experienced as a reality that lies beyond human concepts, much the way that great art or music is felt.
This said being is nothing to consume or dedicate your life too. No one here has any problem with a belief in any god, but good luck convincing anyone you can prove its existance.

[AlP]

five good reasons to think that God exists:

1. God makes sense of the origin of the universe.

2. God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.

3. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.

4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

Maibe we start with nr.1

These exact points were used in a debate between William Lane Craig and Doug Jesseph. I think Jesseph covers the atheist argument.

[McQ]

This is "evidence"?

Surely you don't mean that.

[Whitney]

I just wanted to say that I'm impressed that you could remember what credentials you used for registration after being gone for two years.

[i_am_i]

Where did you first hear about this "God?" Who told you about it?

[Ellainix]

From my personal virtual library :

Arguments for the Existence of God

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/does-go ... god-t5.htm

 five good reasons to think that God exists:
1. God makes sense of the origin of the universe.
2. God makes sense of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
3. God makes sense of objective moral values in the world.
4. God makes sense of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
5. God can be immediately known and experienced.

1. If you have no basic understanding of the scientific view of prehistory, I suppose God does make more sense than big words.
2. This assumes no other forms of life, based upon alternative biochemistry, are possible. Also, humans evolved and adapted to the universe, not the other way around.
3. No sane individual needs a God to think murder, rape, and stealing is wrong.
4. That is assuming any of those events were not made up.
5. Explain.

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its
existence.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its
existence. that cause was God.

*Sigh*

...

1. What caused God?
2. What? God had no cause. He was always there.
3. So the universe needs a cause and God doesn't?
3. Well yeah!
4. And the universe hasn't always been here? You are actually certain of this?
5. Yeah!
6. So you kind of made the assumption that the theoretical Big Bang is a single event and not a part of an eternal cosmic cycle?
7. Yes, but Genesis 1+2.
8. You also assume that the first God you stumbled upon in society is the actual creator rather than the other 10,000 gods worshiped by humans?
9. Yeah, the Bible says he is and that the others aren't.
10. Oh, OK, I guess you are right then.

[Whitney]

FYI, Angel logged in at 1:19pm forum time....so, unless you just want to respond for the sake of random readers,  you may not want to waste any more time responding until Angel decides to respond.

[angelosergipe]

Might I ask what all this is based on? I read your personal library and all I got out of it was "god makes since because I have no other explination."

Do you have a better explanation ?

[angelosergipe]

A wide variety of arguments exist which can be categorized as metaphysical, logical, empirical, or subjective. Although rarely studied scientifically given the generally held belief of religion and science as non-overlapping magisteria,[1] the question of the existence of God is subject to lively debate both in philosophy[2] â€" the philosophy of religion being almost entirely devoted to the question â€" and in popular culture.

And thus points to the whole thing being man made.

how are you so sure about it ?

You then list 6 different ways to interpret a belief in a god. The Personal God of monotheism is obsolete (hence dead), as is the remote Supreme Being introduced by religious philosophers.

why do you think so ?

A more plausible alternative is the God of mysticism, experienced as a reality that lies beyond human concepts, much the way that great art or music is felt.

How are you sure the God of the bible cannot be experienced ? Even yesterday, at the service at my church, a prophet of the church saw a young men attending, and said : Today God freed you to be killed, and only a few days ago, you were close to be arrested. The young men went to the pulpit, and accepted Jesus Christ as his lord and saviour. He admitted he was a trafficker. I can tell you many wonders, God is doing today. God can be experienced, today.

[angelosergipe]

Where did you first hear about this "God?" Who told you about it?

i heard already during my childhood about the God of the bible.

[angelosergipe]

1. If you have no basic understanding of the scientific view of prehistory, I suppose God does make more sense than big words.

please explain why you think so.

2. This assumes no other forms of life, based upon alternative biochemistry, are possible. Also, humans evolved and adapted to the universe, not the other way around.

In fact, according to science, life is only possible, based on carbon chemistry. Silicon is not a possible alternative. It is however very unlikely, Carbon to be formed in space by chance.

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/astrono ... e-t191.htm

Professor Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in high energy physics (a field of science that deals with the very early universe), writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on

how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium.

* The synthesis of carbon--the vital core of all organic molecules--on a significant scale involves what scientists view as an astonishing coincidence in the ratio of the strong force to electromagnetism. This ratio makes it possible for carbon-12 to reach an excited state of exactly 7.65 MeV at the temperature typical of the centre of stars, which creates a resonance involving helium-4, beryllium-8, and carbon-12--allowing the necessary binding to take place during a tiny window of opportunity 10-17 seconds long. Taken from God the Evidence by Patrick Glynn

therefor, the universe was tailored to host life.
 

3. No sane individual needs a God to think murder, rape, and stealing is wrong.

And exactly that conscience is a evidence of a creator, which put this sence of conscience in our heart.

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/does-go ... t-t186.htm

The moral argument begins with the fact that all people recognize some moral code (that some things are right, and some things are wrong). Every time we argue over right and wrong, we appeal to a higher law that we assume everyone is aware of, holds to, and is not free to arbitrarily change. Right and wrong imply a higher standard or law, and law requires a lawgiver. Because the Moral Law transcends humanity, this universal law requires a universal lawgiver. This, it is argued, is God.

In support of the moral argument, we see that even the most remote tribes who have been cut off from the rest of civilization observe a moral code similar to everyone else's. Although differences certainly exist in civil matters, virtues like bravery and loyalty and vices like greed and cowardice are universal. If man were responsible for that code, it would differ as much as every other thing that man has invented. Further, it is not simply a record of what mankind doesâ€"rarely do people ever live up to their own moral code. Where, then, do we get these ideas of what should be done? Romans 2:14-15 says that the moral law (or conscience) comes from an ultimate lawgiver above man. If this is true, then we would expect to find exactly what we have observed. This lawgiver is God.

To put it negatively, atheism provides no basis for morality, no hope, and no meaning for life. While this does not disprove atheism by itself, if the logical outworking of a belief system fails to account for what we instinctively know to be true, it ought to be discarded. Without God there would be no objective basis for morality, no life, and no reason to live it. Yet all these things do exist, and so does God. Thus, the moral argument for the existence of God.

4. That is assuming any of those events were not made up.

that is correct. And there are strong reasons to think so.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/New ... le&id=5351

5. Explain.

If you're sincerely seeking God, God will make His existence evident to you. The Bible says, "draw near to God and he will draw near to you" (James 4.. We mustn't so concentrate on the proofs that we fail to hear the inner voice of God speaking to our heart. For those who listen, God becomes an immediate reality in their lives.

1. What caused God?
2. What? God had no cause. He was always there.
3. So the universe needs a cause and God doesn't?
3. Well yeah!
4. And the universe hasn't always been here? You are actually certain of this?
5. Yeah!
6. So you kind of made the assumption that the theoretical Big Bang is a single event and not a part of an eternal cosmic cycle?
7. Yes, but Genesis 1+2.
8. You also assume that the first God you stumbled upon in society is the actual creator rather than the other 10,000 gods worshiped by humans?
9. Yeah, the Bible says he is and that the others aren't.
10. Oh, OK, I guess you are right then.

http://creation.com/if-god-created-the- ... reated-god

[Whitney]

angelosergipe, some of your responses were preaching rather than an attempt to back up your position with reason.  Please familiarize yourself with HAF's rules, we do not allow preaching from anyone.  Thank you.

[Whitney]

Might I ask what all this is based on? I read your personal library and all I got out of it was "god makes since because I have no other explination."

Do you have a better explanation ?

Making stuff up is a poor method of discovering truth.  A better option would be "I don't know."