Factual Errors in the Bible

Sophus · November 04, 2009, 08:27:13 PM

Some person I recently met says he will give me $1000 if I can "disprove the Bible". I'm going to get the specifics on "the challenge" but my first thought is that if I merely show a factual flaw in it then it proves that not all of it is true. Proving this is easy (I'm thinking Luke and Matthew contradictions) but convincing him could be the only challenge. So what would you say is the most overwhelming proof that there was a major factual error in the Bible. After all there's tons of 'em!

Will · November 04, 2009, 08:57:12 PM

Quote from: "Sophus"Some person I recently met says he will give me $1000 if I can "disprove the Bible".

Remember to noticeably donate the money to charity, just to rub it in. Maybe keep a bit buy yourself a decent hamburger, though. mmm... :drool

Your best bet are direct contradictions, to which there are entire websites devoted, but I prefer simple factual errors like the Biblical geo-centric universe, flat-Earth (Daniel 4:10-11), etc. Twice in Pslams and once in 1 Chronicles, the Bible clearly states that the planet earth is stationary, for example. The earth is not stationary, and it not only can be moved, but it has been moved and is moving right now. And don't let this person try to get away with relative position, that doesn't fly in physics.

LoneMateria · November 04, 2009, 09:46:58 PM

I'm a little confused on the challenge. Will he pay you to show him the ENTIRE bible is factually wrong? Or that the bible is unreliable? I'm not actually sure the challenge and I doubt you will see any money ... people often times when they do those challenges will move the goal post. I can't remember the apologists name but he was offering anyone $25,000 to prove to him evolution exists ... but he would keep moving the goal posts ... it also couldn't be evolution by a scientific standard it had to be by his standards and was expecting evidence that would disprove evolution to prove it ... like the crocoduck -_-.

Anyway If you are going to try and show errors you have the option of showing him errors that have occurred throughout the bibles history. Reginus and I have been doing some back and forwards here which he seems to have given up on. It goes through some of the history of the bible, but no where near all of it. You can bring up that what is "infallible" in the bible came down to a vote. That Jesus's divinity was decided in the council of Nicea and stuff like that.

McQ · November 04, 2009, 10:15:01 PM

This guy is going to have an "out" for everything you tell him. If you want proof, try it with me. As a former christian apologist, I was very good at moving the goalposts and making definitions fit my view of the bible. It sucks, but that's what he'll do if he's even playing with two brain cells.

Contradictions are actually the hardest things to use as "proof" the bible isn't factually right. From the muddled definitions of "contrdictions" that apologists use, to the old standard of, "In this case, the fact that the authors of this account disagreed is proof that it IS true." (warped logic).

It also depends on whether your friend is a "literal" christian. As in, every word, every period, question mark, comma, is EXACTLY the way it was originally written and if it is to be taken literally or allegorically, etc.

Like I said, they will move the goalposts on you. But it will be fun to try, just to see what he says. Feel free to practice here first. We'll help prepare you.

Renegnicat · November 04, 2009, 10:24:00 PM

If you want the money, make sure that you have plenty of time. Sit him down, and go, line by line, over EVERY error in the bible. Every single one. If he can move the goalpost on every single error, then call him a hypocrite and go get yourself a nice hamburger. :drool

Sophus · November 05, 2009, 04:13:01 AM

Quote from: "McQ"This guy is going to have an "out" for everything you tell him. If you want proof, try it with me. As a former christian apologist, I was very good at moving the goalposts and making definitions fit my view of the bible. It sucks, but that's what he'll do if he's even playing with two brain cells.

Contradictions are actually the hardest things to use as "proof" the bible isn't factually right. From the muddled definitions of "contrdictions" that apologists use, to the old standard of, "In this case, the fact that the authors of this account disagreed is proof that it IS true." (warped logic).

It also depends on whether your friend is a "literal" christian. As in, every word, every period, question mark, comma, is EXACTLY the way it was originally written and if it is to be taken literally or allegorically, etc.

Like I said, they will move the goalposts on you. But it will be fun to try, just to see what he says. Feel free to practice here first. We'll help prepare you.

Yeah, I'm not really expecting to win. Ha ha... proving something is one thing. Convincing... another.But either way it's worth a shot. :| ] and then possibily also go onto my idea]:

The contradictions of geneaologies in Luke and Matthew for Joseph creates, as noted by Paul Carlson, two problems for Christianity: 1) to explain away the existence of two genealogies of Joseph, now rendered meaningless, and 2) to explain how Jesus was a descendant of David.

And although it's not directly related the fact that most of the people who wrote about Jesus never saw him is pretty good evidence that they were BSing the whole thing.

McQ · November 05, 2009, 05:50:23 AM

Well, a contradiction I love to bring up is Judas Iscariot's death. Two different account: Hanged himself, or dashed himself upon the rocks. The moronic apologist answer most often given is that it's no contradiction at all: Judas hanged himself on a tree which had a branch that hung out over a long drop down to some rocks. The branch broke and he fell upon the rocks. :hmm:

The Sun stopping in the sky is another good one. It indicates an Earth-centered Solar system (I guess then it would be called a Terran System). Even if they say it doesn't indicate that, it's still screwed up, because it doesn't say the Earth stopped spinning, which it should in order for the Sun to appear stopped. If the Sun was actually stopped, then the entire Solar system would have to have stopped along with it to keep stable, and the bible doesn't say that. An event that big should be mentioned, right?

LoneMateria · November 05, 2009, 06:46:58 AM

Sophus with the two genealogies I've heard them use as an excuse well ... one is Jesus's mother and the other is Joseph. You can hit him on both of these responses. One Joseph was not Jesus's father (since he is the son of God) and therefore his linage is irrelevant since he is not Jesus father and that linage doesn't apply to him. And two in biblical times the linage was through the father so the account can't be of Marys. Again moving the goal post will probably happen here.

McQ about the Judas's death if memory serves the one account of him dying on the rocks says he fell head first.... if you are first hung you wont fall head first. If he tries to explain this away with hypothetical situations ask him, "Do you think Jesus would want you making up stuff to add to the bible?" Again this is still not likely to convince him of anything other then you are a dick for challenging him.

(Just a thought ... imagine how screwed up it would be if you convinced him and then he wrote you a $2000 check and when you went to cash it, it bounced.)

SSY · November 05, 2009, 08:47:38 PM

I bet you $1000 dollars he wont pay, people never pay on stupid bets.

G-Roll · November 05, 2009, 09:02:36 PM

You should have made it a slap bet. So if you prove him wrong you get to slap the shit out of him.

Sophus · November 05, 2009, 09:27:10 PM

FYI: He's a member of Mensa. lol

joeactor · November 05, 2009, 09:49:25 PM

Quote from: "Sophus"FYI: He's a member of Mensa.

... meh.

Haven't had a very high opinion of Mensa since I went to a meeting and watched the other members be amazed by some very simple magic tricks...

Plus, everyone was looking up their next sentence in the unabridged "Dictionary of Really Big Words".

I'd rather not.

BTW, my bet is that you can't win.
JoeActor

Sophus · November 06, 2009, 12:20:16 AM

Quote from: "joeactor"
Quote from: "Sophus"FYI: He's a member of Mensa.

... meh.

Haven't had a very high opinion of Mensa since I went to a meeting and watched the other members be amazed by some very simple magic tricks...

Plus, everyone was looking up their next sentence in the unabridged "Dictionary of Really Big Words".

I'd rather not.

BTW, my bet is that you can't win.
JoeActor

Oh, I think I'll win... just not the prize.

McQ · November 06, 2009, 04:13:24 AM

Here is an example of what I said before about the Judas thing and there being "no contradictions" in the bible. I was very up to speed with this stuff guys. Believe me, it is to my shame that I used to spout this bullshit, but I was very knowledgeable in apologist tactics.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 654AAyPZJS

Renegnicat · November 06, 2009, 09:42:09 PM

Quote from: "Sophus"Oh, I think I'll win... just not the prize.

OH NO YOU WOENT U R GOING TO HELL!!!! :rant:

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Factual Errors in the Bible