How to Select a Psychologist or Counselor

[Whitney]

I personally would like to see evidence for the claim that

The brains of a serial killer and a housewife look just the same. What makes the difference between them is a heart/soul/sin problem.

I'm sure that they physically look the same if you cut open the skull.  But do they look when various tests are done....  I'm especially skeptical of the claim that it can be known that a person becomes a serial killer due to their spiritual state.

[AlP]

I wanted to know Miracle89's thoughts on the results of the Milgram experiment I posted on another thread. Not to argue. I'm in no position to argue against someone with a psychology background. I just wanted to understand how a Christian with a psychological would say about them.

I think iNow made a good argument but I count three instances of ad hominem attack (sorry iNow). If we could avoid that we might have an interesting debate with Miracle89 if it isn't already too late.

[Will]

Actually we have more education than most secular counselors. We take all the courses that any psychologist has to take PLUS all the theological courses that ministers take. Then we integrate psychology and theology. In addition to that theology has been around for thousands of years and psychology is a new science which is only 100 years old. Psychology GREW out of theology, not the other way around and borrows many of its personality theories from what Jesus taught in the Bible.

I'm afraid this is full of holes. Education in psychology is education in psychology. If you go to an accredited school and take the classes in order to get your degree, you've got your degree. It doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus, Apollo, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. As for theological classes being additional training, that's a grave misunderstanding of what science is. The Bible contains no peer reviewed, double-blind studies. It's a religious book, not a journal. The fact you consider your religious training "more education" actually reinforces the dangers outlined in the blog post.

For instance Maslow's hierarchy of needs, a common theory studied by all psychologists comes from Jesus teachings, and all psychology did was change the names, etc. and give them secular names.

Yes and no. Some of the basic structure was mentioned by Jesus, but the teachings didn't originate with him. Teachings from prophets, messiahs, and philosophers that predate when Jesus may have been alive came up with the basic ideas.

All of man's problems have at their "root" cause a heart/soul problem. Since most of you on here are atheist and therefore are your own "gods" it would be a waste of my time to actually try to convince you that there is another God other than yourself. Can you make a tree? Nope, all you can do is make a desk or some other object out of the wood of the tree. When you can actually make a tree or a mountain, please alert the defense department because you will have the answer to all wars.

If you're licensed, someone has made a grave mistake. If you're treating people on the basis that their emotional problems are rooted in the supernatural, that somehow their "heart/soul" has something to do with their problems, you're a danger to them. Psychology is a science first and foremost. Would you go to a doctor that wanted to prescribe you something because you were possessed by an evil spirit? I'd report such a person to the appropriate authorities.

Do not take this to believe that I don't believe in medication. Because in Bi-polar Disorder which IS an organic chemical imbalance that can be found in the brain, then medication gets these chemicals back in balance. ALL the disorders in the DSM-V or the Diagnostic Manual that psychologists and psychiatrists, and therapists use are really just names that a group of people gave to a common list of characteristics displayed in many people. THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC evidence found in the brain to explain any of them. That is because they do not exist. The brains of a serial killer and a housewife look just the same. What makes the difference between them is a heart/soul/sin problem.

I see, so the DSM is just a collection of unsupported opinions, but your theological classes provide you with a stellar education in psychology. On what planet did you earn your degree? I earned mine from Santa Clara University, class of 2005. I applied and was accepted to a graduate program but had to put it on hold for a family. I'm not licensed yet, but I've been studying for quite some time and I feel I'm ready. My mother is a doctorate level LMFT, and two of my best friends are licensed counselors. From my experience in the field, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

The serial killer has no conscious and the housewife does. One feels guilt and remorse and the other does not.

The idea of conscience plays little to no part in psychology. A serial killer might have APD or DPD, but there's no way to make a diagnosis without meeting him or her. And how do you know the housewife doesn't have APD?

Anyway, too bad you atheist rely compleletly on yourselves to solve all of your problems. That is UNTIL you are near to death or someone you love is about to die, and then lo and behold "all of sudden" you want to believe that there is a God. And you know why? Because YOU cannot stop them from dying. YOU cannot bring them back to life. And therein lies the difference.

I don't rely on myself to solve all my problems, I rely on science and so do you. Do you go to a prayer circle when you break your arm or do you visit a licensed physician? Unless you're fundamentalist, you likely see the doctor.

Anyway, many doctors routinely stop people from dying, and even bring them back from a short death. They're not psychologists, you're right, but psychology isn't about people's physical health, it's about their mental health.

Pastoral counselors typically have a bachelor’s degree, a three-year professional degree, and a specialized master’s or doctoral degree in a mental health field.

This is complete and utter nonsense. Most pastors offer counseling and most pastors do not have an education in psychology.

I'm going to go ahead and rule this as a troll, as most of the mistakes in this wouldn't be made by a first year psych student.

[Whitney]

I'm going to go ahead and rule this as a troll, as most of the mistakes in this wouldn't be made by a first year psych student.

That's what I was thinking too.

I think the claim that she has an atheist client and was doing research on internet forums because of that client was a give away in itself.  1)Most atheists wouldn't visit a counselor who 'specializes' in spiritual based healing.  2)Professionals don't use forums as a research tool.

[Kylyssa]

ALL the disorders in the DSM-V or the Diagnostic Manual that psychologists and psychiatrists, and therapists use are really just names that a group of people gave to a common list of characteristics displayed in many people. THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC evidence found in the brain to explain any of them. That is because they do not exist. The brains of a serial killer and a housewife look just the same. What makes the difference between them is a heart/soul/sin problem.

Attitudes like this are responsible for the lack of treatment for mental illnesses in this country.  Many religious people hold that mental and emotional illnesses do not exist - they are only signs of bad parenting, character flaws, or the lack of the right relationship with Jesus.  Some of them even believe those things about things like brain damage.

Some religious people claim that autism, mental retardation, PDD, ADD, and ADHD do not really exist, that they are all just bad parenting.  Some religious people claim that depression, PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, anxiety disorders, and other such illnesses do not exist, that they are all just character flaws and symptoms of being a weak or bad person with an inadequate relationship with Jesus.

I am a high functioning autistic.  I suffer from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of multiple physical assaults I have survived both as a child and as an adult.  I also suffered brain damage from one of those assaults.  When I had good insurance, I saw a psychotherapist and a neurological psychologist.  Both helped me immensely.  The neurological psychologist helped me to understand and deal with the emotional issues caused by physical damage to my brain and the psychotherapist (also a psychologist) helped me deal with my other emotional issues caused by traumatic events through talk therapy.

After I lost my insurance a bunch of unpleasant life situations (onset of a new physical illness, a divorce, an accident, etc.) I felt my life spiraling out of control and I was afraid of becoming homeless again.  I started having panic attacks again and having flashbacks, sleep disturbances, and anxiety.  So logically I sought help.  Without insurance, all I could get is a religious "therapist".  I wasn't really aware she was a religious "therapist" until our first session.  I expected to encounter logic and the leading to self discovery I'd experienced with previous therapists.  Instead, I was told I needed to pray when I have panic attacks.  In other words, she was useless.  When I told her that I'm not religious, she told me that that was the root of all my problems.  You know what?  It's not.

My brain and its quirks combined with circumstances which include having been attacked by vicious, brutal, murderous raping bastards and having been homeless are responsible for my mental issues.  I'm not a weak person with a character flaw and a fatal lack of Jesus, I'm a flawed, organic, living creature that has been damaged and stressed beyond its natural capacity to bounce back.

The actual psychologists I've seen never brought religion or sin or any other such nonsense into my treatment.  And that treatment, when I could afford it, was very effective.

[Ultima22689]

I'm sorry but this is the honest truth, Miracle 89, you disgust me. People like you flaunt your arrogance and self righteousness all over the place combined with your indomitable ignorance, stupidity and lack of a will to call your own make claims of having titles that people spend years working for and make a mockery of them with your post throwing all of their work in the trash to replace it with your psycho religion babble. Even if you really are a counselor you should have any credentials stripped from you, you prey on someone when they're down and indoctrinate them and take away their own ability to pull themselves out of the gutter and make them depend on an invisible sadistic man in the sky and waste the remainder of their life worshiping something that doesn't exist. You then insult those who earn those degrees even more by claiming that there are no mental disorders, organic or otherwise and claim that it is all based on their belief in Jesus and the state of their "soul" thus not only insulting all of the science that can be proven with empirical data but insulting nearly every member of this forum by equating us to a serial killer because of our lack of blind faith aka stupidity and lack of will.

I can't stand people like you, always preying on a person's insecurities. I met a counselor like or as you claim before. They tried this same spiel that you are spitting out and I told them the same thing. I have been diagnosed with ADHD, Schizophrenia, Bi-polar disorder and last week I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. When I would sit in class and the antithesis of my being and consciousness sat right before me even though no one else could see said thing because it was in my head and told me constantly to kill and many other negative things not once did I ever listen to that voice or any other because I willed myself. If I gave into your mythologies I would have likely ended up in jail by now because I would think it was ok because God forgives me and all of that self justification crap. I made the voices shut up on my own without medicine, I found a balance of mood on my own without drugs, I focused without drugs and when I was told I have Asperger's and what it exactly is I grew sad but I picked myself back up again and just accepted it as another quirk that makes up my unconventional brain. I don't and never did need Santa Claus to overcome all of the things that are wrong with me. Watch what you say next time and actually form a coherent thought before you insult everything that makes logical, intelligent people hopeful for humanity again.

[AlP]

Thanks for posting that Ultima. I have PTSD. I haven't had visual hallucinations in years. In fact it's been so long I now question the memories. I did have auditory hallucinations a year or so back during a bad spell. My voices told me to kill too. I didn't do anything obviously =). Stupid mental illness...

[Kylyssa]

Thanks for posting that Ultima. I have PTSD. I haven't had visual hallucinations in years. In fact it's been so long I now question the memories. I did have auditory hallucinations a year or so back during a bad spell. My voices told me to kill too. I didn't do anything obviously =). Stupid mental illness...

After hearing the experiences of others who have PTSD I feel fortunate that my hallucination experiences have only been in the realm of flashbacks and waking nightmares.

Those religious "therapists" are simply dangerous.  I believe that if I'd landed in religious "therapist" hands when I first sought help I probably would have worsened rather than getting better.

[AlP]

After hearing the experiences of others who have PTSD I feel fortunate that my hallucination experiences have only been in the realm of flashbacks and waking nightmares.

Those religious "therapists" are simply dangerous.  I believe that if I'd landed in religious "therapist" hands when I first sought help I probably would have worsened rather than getting better.

Yeah having an inappropriate therapist when you're going though a bad spell could be bad news. It might work for people with a compatible religion though? I have no idea.

You know I've been thinking about psychiatrists' responses to hallucinations like the ones I described. I've had a few psychiatrists. They were really quick to prescribe anti-psychotics. I'm thinking if you're a psychiatrist and you've never experienced it personally the primary concern is to make it stop in case the patient actually does what the voices say. I haven't seen any evidence that voices telling one to kill affects one's values though. I was not even remotely close to that. Voices are annoying and disturbing. Having someone stand beside me and in real life tell me to kill would also be annoying / disturbing. And of course I would not do what they said. But the side effects of an anti-psychotic like Risperdal like I took are quite severe. It's a major tranquilizer.

Does anyone with a relevant background know if there is any research showing people with disturbing voices are in some way more likely to act on them than if they were told the same thing by a real life person?

That's not to say I think psychiatrists are doing a bad job. I've had really good experiences with psychiatrists figuring out which anti-depressants works for me.

[Will]

Some psychiatrists are quick to prescribe, but most are entirely professional.

Have you considered speaking to a psychologist? They can't prescribe you a thing.

[AlP]

Some psychiatrists are quick to prescribe, but most are entirely professional.

Have you considered speaking to a psychologist? They can't prescribe you a thing.

Yeah I think next time that's what I'll do Will, even if it costs more.

[iNow]

When I was still in school, the common joke was that psychologists treat the root cause, whereas psychiatrists more often treat just the symptoms.  It's crude, and is not entirely fair to psychiatrists, but gets a simple point across quickly.  You can medicate, or you can remediate.  You choose.

[Will]

When I was still in school, the common joke was that psychologists treat the root cause, whereas psychiatrists more often treat just the symptoms.

Man, that brings back memories.

I miss school.  

[SSY]

THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC evidence found in the brain to explain any of them. That is because they do not exist.

This, coming from a Christian, I find to be a delectable irony. You sir, are a master of wit.

[joeactor]

Hello Miracle89,

I'm not sure you really understand how your statements are perceived by people who don't believe.

Let me give you an example - start with your statement:

Actually we have more education than most secular counselors. We take all the courses that any psychologist has to take PLUS all the theological courses that ministers take. Then we integrate psychology and theology. In addition to that theology has been around for thousands of years and psychology is a new science which is only 100 years old. Psychology GREW out of theology, not the other way around ...

... now, with a few substitutions (in bold):

Actually we have more education than most secular counselors. We take all the courses that any astronomer has to take PLUS all the mystical courses that astrologers take. Then we integrate astronomy and astrology. In addition to that astrology has been around for thousands of years and astronomy is a new science which is only 100 years old. Astronomy GREW out of astrology, not the other way around ...

So... can you see how your statement may not come off as you intended?