Freedom of Religion

[ProRealism]

I have to wonder IF it actually exists in the US.

A common quote I've heard is "freedom OF religion is not freedom FROM religion"
Should a person not be free "from" religion as well if they so desire?

Is it not because of religious oppression that someone desires freedom "from" religion?

Certainly whatever goes on in your own mind is your own business but the same could be said in Russia during their ban on religion.

Is the US really the "land of the free and the home of the brave"
Or is it The land of the fearful and home of the aggressive zealots?

if freedom of religion did exist, how SHOULD it exist?

[Sophus]

Freedom of Religion can't quite exist with Freedom From Religon, in the sense that there will always be people telling us "Jesus Loves You!". It's annoying sure, but I think the freedom for them to do so is important.

[JillSwift]

Freedom of Religion can't quite exist with Freedom From Religon, in the sense that there will always be people telling us "Jesus Loves You!". It's annoying sure, but I think the freedom for them to do so is important.

I hear "freedom from religion" used in a couple of ways, one the way you just used it (and I agree, you really can't be free from religion without impinging on freedom of religion), and meaning that anyone can choose a religion - but must have a religion.

That second usage is the one that gets under my skin. I think folks who use that meaning are probably the same folks who associate "atheist" with amoral hedonists, thinking that morality needs a law-giver.

I see freedom of religion as the freedom to hold an opinion on religion; that is, Christians hold the opinion that Christianity is "right" and the rest are "wrong" (loosely speaking). So, true religious freedom must also encompass the opinion "all religions are 'wrong'". I don't think we're quite there yet, though we are close, as there are states that disallow the irreligious from holding office.

[Sophus]

You are right JillSwift. It is Freedom From Intolerance that we need.

[ProRealism]

I don't know...
sometimes I think that religion should just be something everyone keeps to themselves.

Besides, it's supposed to be personal anyway isn't it?


How would people stop one another from being douches about it other than government regulation?

[JillSwift]

I don't know...
sometimes I think that religion should just be something everyone keeps to themselves.

Besides, it's supposed to be personal anyway isn't it?


How would people stop one another from being douches about it other than government regulation?

Shifts in the zeitgeist are more effective is one whole heck of a lot slower. I think you'll find that countries that are culturally secular (particularly those wonderful Scandinavian countries) don't need laws to repress religious expression - it just fades of its own accord.

Which is why I prefer campaigns that try to bring secularists, atheists, and humanists "out of the closet" so that we don't seem like some closeted shadow group. The more folks are aware of us and are used to us, the less being atheist will seem "wrong", and the more atheists there will be and fewer folks feeling the need to wear their religion as a chip on their shoulder.

[ProRealism]

Chip on their shoulder? Like they're daring you to dis-spell their beliefs?

I guess some of them are like that. I think a lot of them though are  just deeply rooted in their fears of Hellfire and DON'T want a challenge.
Otherwise... they should be fine when faced with something to the contrary and be able to laugh it off and go "ohohoho! God explains it with a b and c!"

[Godschild]

Chip on their shoulder? Like they're daring you to dis-spell their beliefs?

I guess some of them are like that. I think a lot of them though are just deeply rooted in their fears of Hellfire and DON'T want a challenge.
Otherwise... they should be fine when faced with something to the contrary and be able to laugh it off and go "ohohoho! God explains it with a b and c!"

A christian should never dare anyone to try and dispel their belief that would be arrogant.Being humble is what Jesus calls us to be.We do not always do what we should we are not perfect and God tells us we should never claim to be perfect.I do understand that some christians take it upon themselves to be the judge of all,I've seen it in the churches I've belonged to.If you would give most christians a chance by getting to know them you might find they are really nice people.As for the hellfire thing christians have no reason to be afraid we are saved from hell because we've chosen Jesus as our savior.Now I know that some denomintions believe if one doesn't do everything just right they might lose their salvation and thats sad...that's a discussion for another time.I'm not trying to challenge anyone just wanted to write a few words.

[JillSwift]

A christian should never dare anyone to try and dispel their belief that would be arrogant.Being humble is what Jesus calls us to be.We do not always do what we should we are not perfect and God tells us we should never claim to be perfect.I do understand that some christians take it upon themselves to be the judge of all,I've seen it in the churches I've belonged to.If you would give most christians a chance by getting to know them you might find they are really nice people.As for the hellfire thing christians have no reason to be afraid we are saved from hell because we've chosen Jesus as our savior.Now I know that some denomintions believe if one doesn't do everything just right they might lose their salvation and thats sad...that's a discussion for another time.I'm not trying to challenge anyone just wanted to write a few words.

Well, it's those "judge of all" Christians I'm referring to when I talk about folks wearing their religion as a chip on their shoulder.
The ones who don't understand using the law to enforce their belief system on others is attrition, and as damaging to their faith as their attempts to control other's morals is damaging to society.
But, I suppose it's an easy trap to fall into when you believe you are in possession of "ultimate truth".

[Psalm23]

I have to wonder IF it actually exists in the US.

A common quote I've heard is "freedom OF religion is not freedom FROM religion"
Should a person not be free "from" religion as well if they so desire?

Is it not because of religious oppression that someone desires freedom "from" religion?

Certainly whatever goes on in your own mind is your own business but the same could be said in Russia during their ban on religion.

Is the US really the "land of the free and the home of the brave"
Or is it The land of the fearful and home of the aggressive zealots?

if freedom of religion did exist, how SHOULD it exist?

Let's examine this for a minute.

God said, "I give you every seed all over the earth for the service of man." does this mean I can smoke marijuana without consequence by federal and state law?

If not, why does America strip away my religious laws? according to the laws of God. he gave mankind the right to every seed on the earth. why is the marijuana seed illegal? isn't this religious discrimination?

[BuckeyeInNC]

isn't this religious discrimination?

No, because the rationale behind those laws is not religious.  There are health, safety, welfare, etc. reasons for banning those substances.  (Not saying I agree with those reasons mind you).

Regarding the original post, the Constitution limits government action.  The idea behind Freedom of Religion is that the government may not specifically target activity in the name of or to promote a particular religious belief, rather, there must be some non-religious rationale (i.e. health, safety, public welfare, etc.) for a law to be valid.

So, keeping in mind that we are only talking about GOVERNMENT ACTION when people argue that freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion, they are simply wrong.  The government may not act to impose or otherwise endorse religion.

The Constitution does NOT put limits upon what private citizens may do.

[Sophus]

isn't this religious discrimination?

That's funny coming from someone who wants to make their religion a monopoly.

God said, "I give you every seed all over the earth for the service of man." does this mean I can smoke marijuana without consequence by federal and state law?

It means your omniscient god is not so wise.

If not, why does America strip away my religious laws?

Because, despite the efforts of men like Bush, we're not a theocracy?

[Psalm23]

isn't this religious discrimination?

That's funny coming from someone who wants to make their religion a monopoly.

God said, "I give you every seed all over the earth for the service of man." does this mean I can smoke marijuana without consequence by federal and state law?

It means your omniscient god is not so wise.

If not, why does America strip away my religious laws?

Because, despite the efforts of men like Bush, we're not a theocracy?

There is nothing funny about this issue. GOD planted every seed bearing plant, and every seed bearing fruit tree for the service of man, and the govnerment forbids it.

If I choose to smoke a marijuana plant. who has the ultimate power to tell me not to? the feds or GOD?

ACCORDING to my bible. God said "do whatever you wish to these seed bearing plants for your pleasure.."

Revelations talks about the 12 manners of the marijuana plant. did you know that?

Now I know this thread will probably label me as a "pot smoker" but i think it's an issue that needs to be addressed.

The Govnerment thinks they are higher than God.

That's the problem..

[BuckeyeInNC]

The Govnerment thinks they are higher than God.

I am very thankful for that!!  Our founding fathers made sure that was ingrained in the Constitution.  It protects us from fascist religious fanatics like Psalm23.

[Psalm23]

The Govnerment thinks they are higher than God.

I am very thankful for that!!  Our founding fathers made sure that was ingrained in the Constitution.  It protects us from fascist religious fanatics like Psalm23.

well, it's just too bad that the modern govnerment is going to soon over-ride the govnerment of old. Marijuana will soon be legal in the United States. Because a natural plant (a gift from God) will sky rocket the economy to unseen numbers. All give thanks to God!!