Hi I'm a new member

[ProRealism]

I was once an agnostic but leaning towards some kind of pantheism I didn't know quite what it was and I thought I never would.

Though unfortunately I've had a more experience with religious types since then. Lucky for me I managed to dodge going to church whenever I was a kid. I thought that it didn't matter as long as you were a "good person" since that was the reason people were supposedly sent to church.
After much life experience I realized that being a "good person" was all subjective.. some people I could never please no matter how kind or polite I attempted to be, whether they had a problem with they way that I dressed or the fact that I didn't bring home enough money to support their video game playing habits. I let people run my well dry and my withered husk was then tossed to the winds of fate.

Since that time I've been exposed to more religion and now I understand why they would have these views even if I don't agree with them.

And due to what I've learned about this book called "the secret" I can see why some people can be so callous to the suffering of others.. in the belief that they WANTED it to happen, which I think it just trying to justify their cruelty. It is certain that we do cause a lot of our own suffering through poor choices but whenever it comes to physical assault that is nearly never our choice unless we willingly take steps thinking "would this likely piss this person off? Why yes, I think I'll do it"

What's the alternative? "Transcend" the desire for physical safety and life? I don't think that would be a wise choice, nor do I think that a desire for either of those should be to blame for the suffering of a kid who's beaten up and has his lunch money stolen on a regular basis since millions of years of evolution has gotten us pretty hard wired towards staying alive. I think willfully causing harm on another person is more to blame for suffering than natural instincts for survival.

Otherwise those of us concerned with our wellbeing and taking consideration for other people's feelings would try to consciously avoid that.
Through experience we can learn what some people will and will not tolerate on a personal level and have some general ideas about universal social interaction. We can't predict how everyone else will react to things though and there IS more than one mind unless you're a solipsist so other people's reactions to things CAN be a complete surprise seeing as they have different experiences and associations to things. Minding your own business and keeping to yourself can, ironically, be seen as "rude" to some people and thus, they feel the need to harass you for it.

I can admit whenever it IS my fault for giving more than I should but when it's a surprise from someone else's actions I refuse.

[Sophus]

Welcome ProRealism! Good to have you. I like that you don't bowdlerize yourself. I'm this way too... gets me into trouble.  

If you enjoyed The Secret and being a pantheist you may enjoy some Eckhart Tolle books. Also have you studied Buddhism? It's beautiful stuff. There are certain philosophies in there that I very much agree with as an atheist.

[ProRealism]

Welcome ProRealism! Good to have you. I like that you don't bowdlerize yourself. I'm this way too... gets me into trouble.  

If you enjoyed The Secret and being a pantheist you may enjoy some Eckhart Tolle books. Also have you studied Buddhism? It's beautiful stuff. There are certain philosophies in there that I very much agree with as an atheist.

Actually I think The Secret is total nonsense. The idea that "like energies attract" is completely opposite of the way the physical world works in my view not to mention other fallacious notions such as effects being cause by actions before they take place. Certainly they can be because of a desire that is placed in the future but that does not change the fact that cause and effect happen in a 1 way linear motion through time unless you want to get into black hole physics which would be absolutely silly considering that we do not live in one!

If I have any kind of philosophical view it's probably dualism or possibly determinism, though not self conceived determinism because I have no control over other people's minds, only what I can project in attempts to avoid harm.

Over all I would LIKE to be a LaVey Satanist but I think their intentions are too noble for me and my experiences so I resort to non-altruistic psychological hedonism without regard to the Satanic rules of earth/sins etc.

And I find Buddhism to be insulting towards the validity of my id's desires for existential comfort  so I view it as aggrandized "sour grapes" for those who are lazy or hopeless. It also holds a nihilistic lack of empathy.

[SektionTen]

I don't know about that. Buddhism works pretty well if you don't want to suffer. Thing is, it does kind of dampen your desire to learn no things and be selfish.

[ProRealism]

I don't know about that. Buddhism works pretty well if you don't want to suffer. Thing is, it does kind of dampen your desire to learn no things and be selfish.

So what are you going to do once you've "transcended" desire for anything, just sit around and wait for the Grim Reaper?

Seems like a waste.... after millions of years of evolution on some dust speck of a planet with such short lives...

Staying alive might be hard sometimes but it CAN be worth the effort and satisfying your own desires can bring a sense of accomplishment rather than being whiny thinking  "I don't want to do it, it's too hard"

If I may steal a meme...

[SallyMutant]

I like the material. It's springtime and the whole planet it lovely here. If you like hiking, it doesn't get more tangible, and fun than this.
I resent  any inference that I would be a better person if I  enjoyed  only the oooga booga (spiritual)  instead of the material. I own  some art that I am very attached to.  I like my house. I love my city parks and museums. All tangible.
On the other hand, I know that greedheads and status seekers, who conspicuously consume, give materialism a bad name.

[Tanker]

welcome prorealism glad to have you with our humble forum.

[Whitney]

Welcome to the forum.