END ALL BE ALL

[quizlixx]

what can i tell a stead-fast christian baptist, who constantly questions my non-belief and won't open their mind to the possibility of no gods at all. what can i say to them that will rock the very mental ground they stand on and cause them to realize that there is no god. i just want something i can tell them to end all debates and put a stop to the constant questions
please help and give me serious responses. thanks.

[Hitsumei]

If there is such a thing, I've yet to hear it, and I like to think that I've read all of the best arguments for all sides.

[McQ]

what can i tell a stead-fast christian baptist, who constantly questions my non-belief and won't open their mind to the possibility of no gods at all. what can i say to them that will rock the very mental ground they stand on and cause them to realize that there is no god. i just want something i can tell them to end all debates and put a stop to the constant questions
please help and give me serious responses. thanks.

Tell him there used to be a god, but you killed him with your .44 Magnum. After all, a god's got to know his limitations.

[AlP]

I thought Nietzsche killed God?

[Whitney]

what can i tell a stead-fast christian baptist, who constantly questions my non-belief and won't open their mind to the possibility of no gods at all. what can i say to them that will rock the very mental ground they stand on and cause them to realize that there is no god. i just want something i can tell them to end all debates and put a stop to the constant questions
please help and give me serious responses. thanks.

Honestly, at that point I just try to find some common ground then agree to disagree.

[Twiddler]

Like others have said, there probably isn't anything you could say, some are just that ingrained in their faith.

[PipeBox]

This won't work as it requires your friend to be brutally honest and inquisitive with himself, but the question that started me on my way was "Why do you believe in God?"  My immediate answers were circular, relying on the Bible, and I was clever enough to realize it bad reasoning, the others were relying on feeling but I was well aware that those feelings didn't point directly to the Christian God, and in the absence of the Bible, would've just led me to another.  I suspect Muslims feel as strongly as and Christian, or any Sikh.   My only other refuge was desire, but more than desiring a god, I desired self-honesty.  Your friend would have to be willing to examine his beliefs from a neutral viewpoint, and in his mind, that is likely forbidden, the very thought making him uncomfortable.  I got around that barrier only by deciding that if God was, indeed, true and godly, I ought to find no issue with him, but that I would only strengthen my faith by giving the atheistic thoughts an honest run-through.

But I feel for you.  Teach your friend to think critically and ignore religion for a moment.  If you do it right, then maybe, just maybe, some day many years from now your friend will realize what you said so long ago had merit.  I've lost all hope for conversational conversions of the faith laden, but if even priests may come to question the very words they speak, there is hope for him if he can practice good critical thinking.

My goals now are just to keep my Christian buddies from spewing crap about legitimate science, or being fooled by ID BS.  And it's working.  The one friend always bows out of the conversation; he knows that evolution is legit, he just can't reconcile it.  The others don't bother with evangelizing or speaking poorly of science, and they don't bear such a heavy god burden on them.  The one guy won't drink, thinks sexual immorality is rampant, etc.  I just want to mellow him out a little bit before the best of his life is spent.

Sorry, way off topic.  I'm young and I'm still somewhat ambitious.  Not exactly your proselytizing atheist, but not far off.  I thought about gods.  I want other people to do that, too.  It was something of the great journey of my life thus far, but it ended in me turning around, freed from a ridiculous delusion, to see my friends still bound by it.  They are happy, but so are a lot of people who act disfunctionally, and nothing to me was better than, by and large, the universe finally making sense.  All the religions, the famines, disease, and earthquakes, the grandeur of the universe, the similarities between us and other animals, and so much more snapped into place.  Now I work things into my knowledge just by learning them, not by memorization and then running through any required apologetics.  It's like being able to see where I once was blind.  And that makes me very, very happy, even if it means I don't get eternal life or something that I can psychically direct to alter the universe in my favor.  It's worth giving up the comfort to see the world as it is (or as close as I ever will).  We're all equally mortal, and the universe doesn't readjust for anyone, but now I can see that and it doesn't bother me, so the religious have nothing in their favor but delusion, and it'd hardly be comfortable for the likes of me anymore.

Sorry, way, WAY off topic.  Cheers to anyone who read that.  Also, if the dude isn't your friend, tell him nothing you say to him can strip his faith from him, that he'd have to be willing to do that himself through reasoning, but that he isn't willing.  Tell him that nothing, not alien life, nor a discovery of a shady source for one the four gospels, nor the fact that dead men don't resurrect after three days, could ever cause him to question his belief, and that you're done questioning it for him.  Tell him he can keep it and tell you whatever he wants.  That'll most certainly see him never talk to you again, but it might make him think just a bit.

Whew, done.  Thanks again, anyone who read.

[Twiddler]

This won't work as it requires your friend to be brutally honest and inquisitive with himself, but the question that started me on my way was "Why do you believe in God?"  My immediate answers were circular, relying on the Bible, and I was clever enough to realize it bad reasoning, the others were relying on feeling but I was well aware that those feelings didn't point directly to the Christian God, and in the absence of the Bible, would've just led me to another.  I suspect Muslims feel as strongly as and Christian, or any Sikh.   My only other refuge was desire, but more than desiring a god, I desired self-honesty.  Your friend would have to be willing to examine his beliefs from a neutral viewpoint, and in his mind, that is likely forbidden, the very thought making him uncomfortable.  I got around that barrier only by deciding that if God was, indeed, true and godly, I ought to find no issue with him, but that I would only strengthen my faith by giving the atheistic thoughts an honest run-through.

But I feel for you.  Teach your friend to think critically and ignore religion for a moment.  If you do it right, then maybe, just maybe, some day many years from now your friend will realize what you said so long ago had merit.  I've lost all hope for conversational conversions of the faith laden, but if even priests may come to question the very words they speak, there is hope for him if he can practice good critical thinking.

My goals now are just to keep my Christian buddies from spewing crap about legitimate science, or being fooled by ID BS.  And it's working.  The one friend always bows out of the conversation; he knows that evolution is legit, he just can't reconcile it.  The others don't bother with evangelizing or speaking poorly of science, and they don't bear such a heavy god burden on them.  The one guy won't drink, thinks sexual immorality is rampant, etc.  I just want to mellow him out a little bit before the best of his life is spent.

Sorry, way off topic.  I'm young and I'm still somewhat ambitious.  Not exactly your proselytizing atheist, but not far off.  I thought about gods.  I want other people to do that, too.  It was something of the great journey of my life thus far, but it ended in me turning around, freed from a ridiculous delusion, to see my friends still bound by it.  They are happy, but so are a lot of people who act disfunctionally, and nothing to me was better than, by and large, the universe finally making sense.  All the religions, the famines, disease, and earthquakes, the grandeur of the universe, the similarities between us and other animals, and so much more snapped into place.  Now I work things into my knowledge just by learning them, not by memorization and then running through any required apologetics.  It's like being able to see where I once was blind.  And that makes me very, very happy, even if it means I don't get eternal life or something that I can psychically direct to alter the universe in my favor.  It's worth giving up the comfort to see the world as it is (or as close as I ever will).  We're all equally mortal, and the universe doesn't readjust for anyone, but now I can see that and it doesn't bother me, so the religious have nothing in their favor but delusion, and it'd hardly be comfortable for the likes of me anymore.

Sorry, way, WAY off topic.  Cheers to anyone who read that.  Also, if the dude isn't your friend, tell him nothing you say to him can strip his faith from him, that he'd have to be willing to do that himself through reasoning, but that he isn't willing.  Tell him that nothing, not alien life, nor a discovery of a shady source for one the four gospels, nor the fact that dead men don't resurrect after three days, could ever cause him to question his belief, and that you're done questioning it for him.  Tell him he can keep it and tell you whatever he wants.  That'll most certainly see him never talk to you again, but it might make him think just a bit.

Whew, done.  Thanks again, anyone who read.

Wow, that's a great way of putting it.  Good job on all of that and I can easily relate to you in many of the situations.  Great stuff.

[Hollownucleus]

Well I can say that when I brought over the movie Religulous and convinced my dad and brother to watch it with me (Both Southern Baptists), I think they were shocked when they heard that the story of Jesus was very similar to other, older gods in history such as Horus (Virgin birth, etc).
I like to think of the analogy my church would use. They would say you may not be able to convert someone when you witness to them but you may sow the seeds of faith in them and with proper watering from the holy spirit they will blossom later. Just replace seeds of faith with seeds of doubt and the holy spirit with science.

[quizlixx]

oh my darwin, i should show him zeitgeist!