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Re: Transgender question

Started by gwyn428, February 18, 2009, 04:56:51 AM

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myleviathan

February 17, 2009, 05:46:59 PM
I am currently taking a mental health class, and we're covering disassociative disorders. I was reading about depersonalization disorder, which is basically a strong sense of detatchment from one's body, or a disturbed perception of self. I was also reading about dysmorphic disorder, which is an exaggerated belief that one's body is deformed or disfigured.

Keeping that in mind, do you think that transgender people have a form of mental illness?
"On the moon our weekends are so far advanced they encompass the entire week. Jobs have been phased out. We get checks from the government, and we spend it on beer! Mexican beer! That's the cheapest of all beers." --- Ignignokt & Err

Will

#1
February 17, 2009, 05:55:31 PM
No. Transgendered people can live totally healthy and happy lives being transgendered. A disorder is inherently unhealthy and can cause the suffering of the individual afflicted. Sure, it's outside of societal norms, but so is eating peanut butter off a spoon, and I do that all the time.  :cool:
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

gwyn428

#2
February 17, 2009, 07:17:47 PM
People used to think that homosexuality is a mental illness.

I am not exactly a transgender person, but I am a pangender person which means that my gender identity is both male and female. I am not mentally ill and do not feel mentally ill whatsoever. I love who I am!  :D

myleviathan

#3
February 17, 2009, 08:20:33 PM
I've heard it's fairly common for people who regard themselves as transgender to feel 'trapped' in their biological gender. This feeling of entrapment seems like a disorder in itself, as I'm sure it frequently causes extreme anxiety (not that it does in every case). At least it would for me if I felt trapped in skin that wasn't my own. However I know it doesn't really classify as an illness until the individual copes with that anxiety in ways that are disruptive to his/her life or the lives of others.
"On the moon our weekends are so far advanced they encompass the entire week. Jobs have been phased out. We get checks from the government, and we spend it on beer! Mexican beer! That's the cheapest of all beers." --- Ignignokt & Err

Will

#4
February 17, 2009, 08:25:06 PM
Quote from: "myleviathan"I've heard it's fairly common for people who regard themselves as transgender to feel 'trapped' in their biological gender. This feeling of entrapment seems like a disorder in itself, as I'm sure it frequently causes extreme anxiety (not that it does in every case). At least it would for me if I felt trapped in skin that wasn't my own. However I know it doesn't really classify as an illness until the individual copes with that anxiety in ways that are disruptive to his/her life or the lives of others.
Feeling trapped simply means that one isn't in a situation where they're true to who they are. The same could be said of an atheist in church: it's society forcing itself on you. Now I do know that societal norms are one determining factor in classifying something as a disorder, but it's not the only determining factor because some things that are different can be inherently harmless or even inherently good for individuals. You should speak to transgendered people about their experience. I often find that there's quite a bit of substance lost in textbooks and studies.

gwyn, that's very interesting. I've not known any pangendered people before. Am I right in interpreting that pangendered is to transgendered as bisexual is to homosexual? I'm glad you are comfortable as you are.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

myleviathan

#5
February 17, 2009, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: "Will"You should speak to transgendered people about their experience. I often find that there's quite a bit of substance lost in textbooks and studies.

I've been considering going to visit a local Universalist Unitarian church - they are open, of course, to all variations of gender. I hope to meet people there.

By the way, Gwyn - how did you overcome norms of society to feeling as comfortable as you do now? That's really awesome.
"On the moon our weekends are so far advanced they encompass the entire week. Jobs have been phased out. We get checks from the government, and we spend it on beer! Mexican beer! That's the cheapest of all beers." --- Ignignokt & Err

gwyn428

#6
February 18, 2009, 04:56:51 AM
Quote from: "Will"gwyn, that's very interesting. I've not known any pangendered people before. Am I right in interpreting that pangendered is to transgendered as bisexual is to homosexual? I'm glad you are comfortable as you are.

I would say, yes, in the sense that I am thinking. But, let's not confuse the viewers of this thread that gender identity and sexual orientation are the same thing. A person of any gender identity can have any sexual orientation. But yeah, let's compare the gender and sexuality types...

Homosexual (attraction to same sex)
Bisexual (attraction to opposite and same sex)

Transgender (gender identity is opposite of assigned body)
Pangender (gender identity is same and opposite of assigned body)

Quote from: "myleviathan"By the way, Gwyn - how did you overcome norms of society to feeling as comfortable as you do now? That's really awesome.

I never have any problems with anyone about it for some reason. The only problem I had was with myself before I could understand what exactly was going on with the gender aspect of the self. My body is the male sex and yet I always felt and still feel male and female. Long ago and not so long ago I didn't understand why I am this way. Last year I heard about Transgender and it didn't fully explain myself and so I knew that I'm not a Transgender person. Then a few months later I found out about Androgyny and Pangender. That's when I came to understand what my gender identity is. Acceptance was immediate. Years ago I actually despised the female aspect of my gender and I always thought of it as a problem. So far I have not met any opposition from others. I wear a woman's ring on my right thumb and sometimes I wear a kurta with a sweater over it so that I kind of look like I'm wearing a miniskirt (trousers included). My speech and my body movements are feminine sometimes and I guess nobody notices.

AlP

#7
February 18, 2009, 05:26:57 AM
I have a mental disorder (PTSD) and one of my symptoms is dissociation. I think being transgendered is different in an important way. When I dissociate, it is to take a thought or feeling and make it somehow external to my being by attributing the thought or feeling to another person or identity. It seems to me that a transgendered person is doing the opposite. I'm trying to escape something. A transgendered person is incorporating something.
"I rebel -- therefore we exist." - Camus

karadan

#8
February 18, 2009, 08:25:39 AM
I met David Shayler at a party last year. He was wearing womens clothes (it wasn't a fancy dress party). Apparently he wants the op eventually. An obviously very intelligent man with seemingly no mental issues. He just likes to feel like a woman. That is the only example i can think of. Not very scientific, i know, but i can't see any difference from being a transsexual to wanting to dress/act/be any other specific way. It is just a life choice, not a mental illness.

For anyone who doesn't know, David Shayler is an ex MI5 whistle-blower.
QuoteI find it mistifying that in this age of information, some people still deny the scientific history of our existence.

SSY

#9
February 18, 2009, 01:12:09 PM
I wouldn't be so confident about his mental health.

In August 2007, Shayler wrote to The Times newspaper claiming to be a reincarnation of a Jewish revolutionary named 'Astronges'. For Shayler, "[t]he Jesus of the New Testament is an archetype. His name derives from the 13th Name of God in Kabbalah, which helps activate the Messiah consciousness within us. I was, though, crucified with a crown of thorns and nails when incarnated as Astronges, a Jewish revolutionary put to death by the Romans at around the end of the last century BC", he wrote.[28] However, there is no record of 'Astronges' in historical texts. He was most likely referring to Athronges.

In September 2007, Sky News quoted Shayler as saying, "I am the last incarnation of the Holy Ghost (aka the Holy Spirit) or the Yeshua or Jesus Spirit (aka the Christ consciousness). As the Holy Spirit is God incarnate as essence, I am God incarnated as spirit and man."[29]

Shayler has also claimed to be a reincarnation of:

several Roman leaders, including Mark Antony
Leonardo Da Vinci
the South American revolutionary, Che Guevara (note: Shayler was born 2 years before Guevara died)
some of the greatest military leaders of all time, including Alexander the Great, King Arthur, and Lawrence of Arabia
some of the greatest philosophers of all time, including Plato and Pythagoras
Tutenkhamen
Brutus of Troy, the Trojan who Britain is said to be named after and to have lived in Totnes, which is near where Shayler was living before he moved to Amsterdam in 2008.
Quote from: "Godschild"SSY: You are fairly smart and to think I thought you were a few fries short of a happy meal.
Quote from: "Godschild"explain to them how and why you decided to be athiest and take the consequences that come along with it
Quote from: "Aedus"Unlike atheists, I'm not an angry prick

karadan

#10
February 18, 2009, 01:20:58 PM
The party i was at was in Totnes :)

I'm aware of his quite outlandish claims. I'm also aware of the paranoia induced after going through many of the things he has. From that sort of background, it is probably apt that he says many of these things as a red herring to keep the surveillance at bay. Having met him, i'd say he is playing a game and i don't believe he truly believes many of the things he has said.

Alternatively, he could be quite balmy but i doubt he has mental health issues. His circle of friends certainly did not seem the conspiratorial type - afterall, a good friend of mine (my ex-landlord) is one of his best mates and has some very interesting things to say about him.

Eccentric, definitely. Insane, absolutely not.
QuoteI find it mistifying that in this age of information, some people still deny the scientific history of our existence.

myleviathan

#11
February 18, 2009, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: "AlP"A transgendered person is incorporating something.

Not trying to escape thier biological gender? Such as is evidenced by wearing clothing usually worn by the opposite biological gender, or procuring surgery to 'fix' their genetically assigned gender?

I see how they incorporate something, but they also try to distance themselves from their genetic assignment. Especially when surgery is involved. Make-up and clothing are more culturally relative. But surgery...
"On the moon our weekends are so far advanced they encompass the entire week. Jobs have been phased out. We get checks from the government, and we spend it on beer! Mexican beer! That's the cheapest of all beers." --- Ignignokt & Err

Will

#12
February 18, 2009, 06:15:44 PM
Again, it's not a disorder unless the individual's mental and emotional state cause them considerable distress and impairment on social and personal levels. When the state causes them these harms, then an individual goes from being emotionally and mentally healthy to having a disorder, specifically gender identity disorder.

Treatment for GID used to be to convince the individual to be happy with his or her gender, but now it's more about helping the individual to be happy with whoever he or she is. This can mean either learning to be the gender that you were born or learning a healthy way to exist as a different gender.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

Cemetery

#13
February 20, 2009, 03:33:25 AM
Quote from: "myleviathan"do you think that transgender people have a form of mental illness?

Nope, not in the least bit. I think transgender ppl truly are born in a body that doesn't match their mindset.  That leads to a life of confusion & depression. Only by changing their gender are they able to gain a sense of their true personality.

~C

gwyn428

#14
February 21, 2009, 05:01:08 AM
Quote from: "Cemetery"
Quote from: "myleviathan"do you think that transgender people have a form of mental illness?

Nope, not in the least bit. I think transgender ppl truly are born in a body that doesn't match their mindset.  That leads to a life of confusion & depression. Only by changing their gender are they able to gain a sense of their true personality.

~C

I'd say that changing the sex would be better than changing the gender.  :)
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