Religious Assumption

NearBr0ken · December 18, 2008, 06:47:17 PM

It has occurred to me that the entirety of religion is based upon the assumption that one must die. I mean, after all, if you don't die then what's the point? If you never experience eternal bliss and can't threaten people with eternal torment then you really have no ground to stand on. With increasing lifespan and the quality of life increasing for many, it is speculated that we could be immortal within the next 50-100 years. Regardless of the time frame, if humanity ever conquers aging and death, religion will have a lot to deal with. With the exponential increase of technology over time, it only makes sense that on a long enough time line, humanity must eventually conquer death. What might the theists say then?

chuff · December 18, 2008, 06:56:56 PM

Quote from: "NearBr0ken"It has occurred to me that the entirety of religion is based upon the assumption that one must die. I mean, after all, if you don't die then what's the point? If you never experience eternal bliss and can't threaten people with eternal torment then you really have no ground to stand on. With increasing lifespan and the quality of life increasing for many, it is speculated that we could be immortal within the next 50-100 years. Regardless of the time frame, if humanity ever conquers aging and death, religion will have a lot to deal with. With the exponential increase of technology over time, it only makes sense that on a long enough time line, humanity must eventually conquer death. What might the theists say then?

Well, not necessarily. According to christianity at least, Enoch (Hebrews xi, 5), Elijah (2 Kings ii), and the whole church (1 Thessalonians iv, 16-17) have gone/will go to the afterlife without dying.

I don't see immortality by itself as necessarily a desirable thing, especially after my recent visit to a nursing home.. So we would have to defeat aging along with it.

This is all based on the guess that we can find out a way to defeat immortality before we all die.

The theists would probably want to put a ban on the immortality and anti-aging techniques, claiming it goes against god's created order, citing Hebrews ix, 27. Which would prove interesting...

curiosityandthecat · December 18, 2008, 06:58:24 PM

inb4 Twilight.

I think they'll figure out a way to wiggle around immortality. That, or they'd fight it. Hard.

DennisK · December 18, 2008, 07:06:47 PM

Good point, NearBroken. Who would atheists have to debate then? If theists are yearning to die and 'find their maker', would that mean extinction for them? Would the buddhists be constantly reborn and we would have to try and guess what they became? Also, if we live indefinitely, are our kids going to be hitting us up for money forever? I was hoping to retire by my 999th birthday.

dodgecity · December 18, 2008, 07:42:20 PM

Wow. I cannot believe I did not think of this first. This is gold.

With the ongoing trend of science slowly marginalizing, or diluting, the archaic ideas of religion, this is sure to happen somewhere along the way. Genius.

NearBr0ken · December 18, 2008, 07:55:38 PM

I'm an ardent transhumanist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism. Actually, transhumanism and the sciences associated with it are part of what started me questioning religion. How can one say that God smites people with sickness if we can overcome disease? Does that mean that God cannot smite people or that he is respecting our free will to override his power with medicine? It just doesn't make sense.

Sophus · December 18, 2008, 07:59:20 PM

Theists today would probably say that once we conquer death (which I doubt will happen) Jesus will have already arrived on his white horse.

Kevin · December 18, 2008, 08:25:41 PM

Quote from: "NearBr0ken"It has occurred to me that the entirety of religion is based upon the assumption that one must die. I mean, after all, if you don't die then what's the point? If you never experience eternal bliss and can't threaten people with eternal torment then you really have no ground to stand on. With increasing lifespan and the quality of life increasing for many, it is speculated that we could be immortal within the next 50-100 years. Regardless of the time frame, if humanity ever conquers aging and death, religion will have a lot to deal with. With the exponential increase of technology over time, it only makes sense that on a long enough time line, humanity must eventually conquer death. What might the theists say then?

You tapped into religion's way of getting believers there: Fear.

Sophus · December 18, 2008, 08:40:11 PM

Quote from: "dodgecity"Wow. I cannot believe I did not think of this first. This is gold.

With the ongoing trend of science slowly marginalizing, or diluting, the archaic ideas of religion, this is sure to happen somewhere along the way. Genius.

Immortality will never happen. Eventually the sun will give out and everyone will die.

NearBr0ken · December 18, 2008, 08:46:26 PM

Quote"Two hundred years ago, powerful synthetic pain-killers and surgical anesthetics were unknown. The notion that physical pain could be banished from most people's lives would have seemed absurd. Today most of us in the technically advanced nations take its routine absence for granted." -The Hedonistic Imperative

Who knows what we could do in the next two hundred years, seeing as technological progress is not linear, but exponential. The more technology we have, the faster we can create new technology. Compared to what we are now, there is potentially no upper limit. The next few decades will prove to be our greatest opportunity or our greatest destruction, depending on the way technology goes.

curiosityandthecat · December 18, 2008, 08:50:27 PM

Talking about what's going to happen in the future reminds me of Ray Kurzweil. Check out The Age of Spiritual Machines and The Singularity is Near. Really interesting guy. If you're an Our Lady Peace fan, you've already been exposed to his work.

Kyuuketsuki · December 19, 2008, 10:50:44 AM

I'm not planning to die in fact I am working on a plan to live forever ... so far it's going well but I'll keep you posted

Kyu

BadPoison · December 19, 2008, 04:49:10 PM

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"I'm not planning to die in fact I am working on a plan to live forever ... so far it's going well but I'll keep you posted

Here goes imagination land:
Human life originated on Earth. Eventually humanity conquers death. Despite population control being implemented by international governing bodies, we're forced to colonize other worlds in our solar system. Even without breaking the speed of light, now that we're more or less immortal we send sleeper ships out to colonize worlds far from our own. Eventually the milkyway galaxy is filled with human life. Not having a way to communicate faster than the speed of light though, the technology levels of different star systems progress (for the most part )in isolation. Still, eventually systems do hit the knowledge singularity. And we learn to travel faster than the speed of light the same principals that allow us to do this also allow a startling new technology of time travel. So as the universe begins to collapse in upon itself, and our very existence seems to be coming to an end, we decide to travel through time, and start over at the beginning of the universe - where we learn to live far before humanity even evolved, and in galaxies that are just in their birth. Of course the universe still eventually ends, and we're now trapped in a new singularity of constantly cheating the 'death' of our universe and rebuilding.

Fantastic?

brekfustuvluzerz · January 08, 2009, 11:06:32 PM

no no no, first we will beat aging and death biologically, then we will learn how to download our consciousness onto flash hard drives. the christians, of course, will have no part in this, which is how evolution will eventually get rid of them (apparently they do not have will enough to survive to put aside their ancient religious beliefs [theyll probably claim that this is the "mark of the beast" prophesy or something]). then we will colonize other planets in our solar system, then we will learn to travel close to the speed of light or through worm holes. we will planet hop for millennia until we all of the planets close to stars have been destroyed by those stars. by this time, we will have created computers for or consciousness to reside in that can resist the coldest temperatures and harshest atmospheres and environments and we can live on a planet that has no sun to orbit as well as discover a sustaining energy source. this planet will forever move away from all other planets and we will live in total darkness with no sun or stars forever. but then we will create synthetic suns that never die! then we will go back in time and choose certain people who we will bring to the future based on how they lived their lives. we will bring them to our new planet where there is no religious bickering, no racism (there will only be one race by then), no hatred, we will have mastered physics and created our own heaven, and the best part is that none of the christians get in! in their faces!

Wraitchel · January 09, 2009, 05:53:43 AM

Quote from: "brekfustuvluzerz"no no no, first we will beat aging and death biologically, then we will learn how to download our consciousness onto flash hard drives. the christians, of course, will have no part in this, which is how evolution will eventually get rid of them (apparently they do not have will enough to survive to put aside their ancient religious beliefs [theyll probably claim that this is the "mark of the beast" prophesy or something]). then we will colonize other planets in our solar system, then we will learn to travel close to the speed of light or through worm holes. we will planet hop for millennia until we all of the planets close to stars have been destroyed by those stars. by this time, we will have created computers for or consciousness to reside in that can resist the coldest temperatures and harshest atmospheres and environments and we can live on a planet that has no sun to orbit as well as discover a sustaining energy source. this planet will forever move away from all other planets and we will live in total darkness with no sun or stars forever. but then we will create synthetic suns that never die! then we will go back in time and choose certain people who we will bring to the future based on how they lived their lives. we will bring them to our new planet where there is no religious bickering, no racism (there will only be one race by then), no hatred, we will have mastered physics and created our own heaven, and the best part is that none of the christians get in! in their faces!

Watch Dr Who much?

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Religious Assumption