Morality in the Bible

[Brock]

Every time someone suggest that morals come from the bible, I cant help but think that the bible also says to stone your children to death if they ever speak back to their parents.
Nice morals eh
Atheists, like all people, get their morals from their parents, their school and their common sense. I dont want to hurt people, I feel no satisfaction in doing so, and like others mentioned above me, if I hurt someone he might want to hurt me back

I don’t recall stoning your children but i do recall Honoring your mother and father which seems pretty understandable. SO pleas tell me where you get the impression that Christians are suppose to stone there Children.

Topic split from:  viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2472

[Whitney]

I don’t recall stoning your children but i do recall Honoring your mother and father which seems pretty understandable. SO pleas tell me where you get the impression that Christians are suppose to stone there Children.

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_ ... ldren.html

see also:  http://www.evilbible.com/

If this is going to turn into a discussion of morality in the Bible, someone, please start a new thread.

[Brock]

That’s Old Testament. Christians learn from the Old Testament not follow it. Jesus never condoned such Behavior.

[Whitney]

That’s Old Testament. Christians learn from the Old Testament not follow it. Jesus never condoned such Behavior.

So god changed his mind?  Didn't Jesus say he came not to destroy the old law but fulfill it?  Considering that many Christians are anti-gay; it's very obvious that many do follow the OT.

Btw, I"m going to split this off into a new thread.

[Brock]

That’s Old Testament. Christians learn from the Old Testament not follow it. Jesus never condoned such Behavior.

So god changed his mind?  Didn't Jesus say he came not to destroy the old law but fulfill it?  Considering that many Christians are anti-gay; it's very obvious that many do follow the OT.

Btw, I"m going to split this off into a new thread.

Well im no anti Gay . i just don’t support it So you got to look at the individual also. And in regards to the God changing his mind he did to a degree. He had to give us  the old testament to live by to give us guidance until the Savior could come and put us on the ultimate path. He sacrificed his life for us so we no longer have to do such things like animal Sacrifice. So Yeah God did change some of the old laws.

[Whitney]

Well im no anti Gay . i just don’t support it So you got to look at the individual also.

Don't you find it a bit odd that so many views can develop from reading the same Bible?  Either a lot of people are cherry picking or there are a ton of ways to interpret the same text.  In my view, it's both.

We have your Fred Phelps and your Waco cults on one extreme then your Gay Church  (http://www.gaychurch.org) on the other with all sorts of varying views in the middle.  Obviously, all these people have differing moral views; so how does anyone get solid morals from the Bible?  

In my view, this means that the Bible is not a very good source for morals; especially since many parts can be interpreted in a negative sense.

And in regards to the God changing his mind he did to a degree. He had to give us  the old testament to live by to give us guidance until the Savior could come and put us on the ultimate path. He sacrificed his life for us so we no longer have to do such things like animal Sacrifice. So Yeah God did change some of the old laws.

Doesn't the bible say that God is unchanging?  He is described as the Alpha and Omega; beginning and end.  Many philosophical arguments dealing with god and his non-interruption of human free will put God outside of time; thus meaning that he is non-changing.

People weren't really that much less intelligent (just had less technical knowledge) before Jesus than they are now.  Why do you think they couldn't have also understood the idea of love each other (which is how many Christians will generically describe the teachings of Jesus; even if they hate certain people)?

I also think it is weird that God sacrificed himself to himself in order to overrule laws that He created.  Really, none of it makes a bit of sense unless you already believe it is true.

[SSY]

From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!"  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)


Looks like god directly condones the killing of children. If I did that, I would be put in prison, yet, just becuase god is all powerful and all knowing he can get away with that? Scott free? That smacks of being unfair, what makes god so special?

[thirteen31]

That’s Old Testament. Christians learn from the Old Testament not follow it. Jesus never condoned such Behavior.

So god changed his mind?  Didn't Jesus say he came not to destroy the old law but fulfill it?  Considering that many Christians are anti-gay; it's very obvious that many do follow the OT.

Btw, I"m going to split this off into a new thread.

Well im no anti Gay . i just don’t support it So you got to look at the individual also.

Doesn't this answer the question as to where atheists get their morals? It is up to the individual, we control our own environment. Tradition passed on through generations doesn't necessarily mean that it can only be taught through a bible.

[Wechtlein Uns]

That’s Old Testament. Christians learn from the Old Testament not follow it. Jesus never condoned such Behavior.

Wait, so the adam and eve story is not real, just because it's in the old testament? You mean it was, what, some kind of metaphor?!? Wait a minute, then why did jesus die on the cross? To save us from a METAPHOR?!?

If you reject the old testament, you have to reject the new testament too. After all, the reason for jesus sacrifice is the story of adam and eve, no?

[Brock]

That’s Old Testament. Christians learn from the Old Testament not follow it. Jesus never condoned such Behavior.

Wait, so the adam and eve story is not real, just because it's in the old testament? You mean it was, what, some kind of metaphor?!? Wait a minute, then why did jesus die on the cross? To save us from a METAPHOR?!?

If you reject the old testament, you have to reject the new testament too. After all, the reason for jesus sacrifice is the story of adam and eve, no?

How clever you are, or try to be. I did say we LEARN from the Bible. so we learn about Adam and Eve were the first humans. i never said we through out its Validation. so pleas let us get a dictionary next time so we fully understand the Definition of the word Learn, shall we? for the word learn means to obtain knowledge so that’s what Christians are doing in such a case, obtaining the knowledge of the beginning and all else in the new testament. and i never said the world Reject did i madam? no i did not. so again next time how about we actually pay attention to what i say before you go on some unprovoked Vendetta.

[SSY]

It seems kind of odd god would send down his only son to die in the most painful way possible, when really it was god's fault that humans had original sin in the first place, that part of the bible has never made sense to me.

God could have said, "You know what guys, we're cool, lay off the blasphemy and I'll be a bit more lenient about the whole fire and brimstone thing". Sending his son down to die seems a rather circuitious way to accomplish this.

Also, regarding your rather sharp tongue towards Uns, you do reject the rules laid down in the OT, as evidenced by the fact you don't condone the stoning of children and gays. Maybe you should obtain an elementary textbook on critical thinking next time you try and attack someone who exposes contradictions in your beliefs?

Edit: Ai speel gud

[Wraitchel]

There are actually many good rules and guidelines in the new testament, but since most people learn by example, let's look at God's behavior. Yes, let's judge God Himself. He put Adam and Eve in an impossible situation. If they were like us, then they had a great deal of curiosity. The desire to learn and understand overrides almost all other desires in a child. It is that powerful. Then he says, "sorry, but you can't eat from the tree of knowledge or you'll get too smart for me." Adam and Eve were SET UP! Later, God has a few "chosen people." Everyone else is beneath his notice. He gives them hundreds of rather strict rules, which often conflict with their nature. When they fail to get it right, he kills them in great, grumpy vendettas, wiping out entire cities, or flooding the entire planet. If we judged him on a human scale, he'd be a sociopath and murderer. He says he's loving and merciful, but I say actions speak louder than words. Now, let's get to the real loving part. If "god so loved the world that he sent his only son, Jesus to die for our sins," then he set humanity up again. He knew he could use the power-hungry, fearful, rotten nature of humans to get Jesus ( a great teacher and social revolutionary) killed in a gruesome, slow, and excruciating way. Instead of sending a bunch of really great teachers to show us the way and nurture us along the right path, the omni-impotent god was only able to pop out one, and that with the intent to offer him as a blood sacrifice to himself. Great parenting there, huh? He's a friggin' barbarian, and way too primitive god for me! Furthermore, what is fair about heaven and hell? I've never done anything to merit eternal torture of the most intense kind. I may or may not deserve heaven, but any god who would send me to hell for simply not being able to wrap my brain around the dogma in one inconsistent, inscrutable, illogical little tome is a criminally unfair, bloodthirsty, primitive old ass. According to his example, we should kill our children when they misbehave, or else pop out one extra special baby, raise him up to be perfect, then flay him in the bathtub until he'd dead and tell all the remaining kids that if they say, "Mommy, I know that you had little Tommy just to save me from your wrath. I believe that his death cleanses me of all the rules I've broken and will allow you to love me forever," then you will forgive them and let them stay with you forever.

[curiosityandthecat]

How clever you are, or try to be. I did say we LEARN from the Bible. so we learn about Adam and Eve were the first humans. i never said we through out its Validation. so pleas let us get a dictionary next time so we fully understand the Definition of the word Learn, shall we? for the word learn means to obtain knowledge so that’s what Christians are doing in such a case, obtaining the knowledge of the beginning and all else in the new testament. and i never said the world Reject did i madam? no i did not. so again next time how about we actually pay attention to what i say before you go on some unprovoked Vendetta.

Is there a Reason that you Capitalize every few Words you wish to Emphasize? It's somewhat Odd, Mr. Fawkes.

[Sophus]

That’s Old Testament. Christians learn from the Old Testament not follow it. Jesus never condoned such Behavior.

Jesus taught from the Old Testament. Presumably that means he approved of what it had to say. It's all or nothing, you can't cherry pick.

As far as honor thy father and mother goes, I do not agree with that in every situation. We should not teach our children to submit and conform to those who have authority over them merely for that reason. I encourage my son to challenge me and think for himself. Not to mention I've known some pretty wretched parents whose children are far superior to them in intellect (or at least common sense).

Most "morals" one finds in the bible are nothing more than prejudice atrocities.

Is there a Reason that you Capitalize every few Words you wish to Emphasize? It's somewhat Odd, Mr. Fawkes.

Your question answers itself.    But I have noticed that in other Christians as well (hmmm...). I prefers the italics.

[thirteen31]

As far as honor thy father and mother goes, I do not agree with that in every situation. We should not teach our children to submit and conform to those who have authority over them merely for that reason.

Honouring thy father and mother is not submitting and conforming. Honouring our parents is giving them a distinction of respect. Honour/Respect doesn't mean to conform or to adhere.

I encourage my son to challenge me and think for himself.

I think this is a great skill to instill in your children but to get back to 'honouring' our parents, wouldn't you want that honour from your children because you have taught them this?

Not to mention I've known some pretty wretched parents whose children are far superior to them in intellect (or at least common sense).

And I can add to your list...