Beleiving in God is the Norm

[Kyuuketsuki]

There is the problem that we cannot know anything beyond our reality (universe)

Not only we can, we can prove as well

What you mean in the same way as you have spectacularly failed to disprove evolution? Well colour me shocked  

Your assumptions are not proved
but what we can be sure of is that
If God exists he will be outside/separate from the universe

No one was claiming they are proved but the argument I posted (another one you haven't bothered to deal with) is streets ahead of anything in terms of logic & reasoning than ANYTHING you have posted in this thread. Based on the fact that this is the SECOND article of mine you have avoided I can only assume you are terrified of the metaphorical kicking I will give you if you try.

Kyu

[Messenger]

Perhaps for clarity's sake we should replace 'universe' with 'reality' to avoid confusion in contexts that consider multiverses to be possible. So

Yes, we can say Reality=Universe + G  (And G could be nothing or something) (Also G could be God or anything else)
Then we can look for a proof that G is not nothing
Then look for a proof that G=God

[bowmore]

Yes & no ... "God" could be in either but the fact that he hasn't been detected in it so far implies that he is, if he exists at all, outside. I think we can use universe because it is defined as all that exists so the argument encompasses the "multiverse" if they are ever demonstrated to exist with reasonable certainty.

The main point of the argument is that anyone who claims that a god exists outside 'everything that exists' immediately concedes that god does not exist.

[Messenger]

The main point of the argument is that anyone who claims that a god exists outside 'everything that exists' immediately concedes that god does not exist.

Totally wrong assumption as it depends on:
We have 100% confidence that the universe is all what exists

This is a very good example for circular logic

    Nothing exists outside the universe --------> As god will be outside the universe ------> God does not exist ---->
So nothing exists outside the universe --------> As God will be outside the universe ------> God does not exist ---->

Thanks for being a role model for circular logic (Atheism)  

[bowmore]

The main point of the argument is that anyone who claims that a god exists outside 'everything that exists' immediately concedes that god does not exist.

Totally wrong assumption as it depends on:
We have 100% confidence that the universe is all what exists

This is a very good example for circular logic

    Nothing exists outside the universe --------> As god will be outside the universe ------> God does not exist ---->
So nothing exists outside the universe --------> As God will be outside the universe ------> God does not exist ---->

No you misunderstand.
If we define reality/the universe to be all that exists, then anyone claiming god to exist ouside reality, concedes that god does not exist.

This does not mean that reality/the universe cannot be defined differently.

I don't think our definitions are that different, and I also don't think you claim god exists outside reality since you posted

reality = universe + g

Then it is clear that you do not claim g to exist outside reality, and also that universe is not necessarily all the exists (but reality is).

Hope that clarifies what I mean.

Thanks for being a role model for circular logic (Atheism)  

How do you arrive at :

God does not exist ----> So nothing exists outside the universe

this is  a non sequitur.

[Messenger]

I don't think our definitions are that different, and I also don't think you claim god exists outside reality since you posted

reality = universe + g

Then it is clear that you do not claim g to exist outside reality, and also that universe is not necessarily all the exists (but reality is).
Hope that clarifies what I mean.

Glad that we agree on something  

How do you arrive at :

God does not exist ----> So nothing exists outside the universe

As God can only exist outside U, if nothing exists outside he does not exists

[bowmore]

How do you arrive at :

God does not exist ----> So nothing exists outside the universe

As God can only exist outside U, if nothing exists outside he does not exists

See this is exactly why I have strong doubts about your logical skills.

Look at the conclusion of your explanation : "As God can only exist outside U, if nothing exists outside he does not exists" This is not what needed explaining, it the starting point in "God does not exist ----> So nothing exists outside the universe"
You have actually explained why "Nothing exists outside the universe  ---->  God does not exist" i.e. the other way around.

If turning around implications would be allowed, it would be easy to show most arguments to be circular  

[Kyuuketsuki]

Perhaps for clarity's sake we should replace 'universe' with 'reality' to avoid confusion in contexts that consider multiverses to be possible. So

Yes, we can say Reality=Universe + G  (And G could be nothing or something) (Also G could be God or anything else)
Then we can look for a proof that G is not nothing
Then look for a proof that G=God

If G is nothing then fine but it equally well be X, Y X, Z, F, M & N also equalling nothing ... but if you're saying there is a G then YOU MUST PROVE IT!!!! IOW your calculation is complete and utter bollocks!

Kyu

[Asmodean]

The universe we know is based on "emptiness" and this:

[BadPoison]

As "G" is not on the table, G does not exist.  

[Faithless]

Why is anyone even trying to argue with this joker?  It's pretty obvious Messenger knows nothing at all about logic, can't frame a proper argument, is incapable of reading and comprehending other people's arguments, has little to no formal education, apparently is incapable of comprehending much beyond some fundie websites, and has no other purpose than to spout utter nonsense in defense of a nonexistent figment of his/her imagination.

After half a dozen threads of Messenger's unfortunate and pathetic attempts to proselytize, I'm surprised anyone is bothering to give him/her/it the time of day.  Yep, I'm a big meanie atheist and I'm not in the mood for circular logic today.

And lastly, Messenger, you keep telling us to wait and you'll prove god to us.  That's bullshit.  Either you have proof or you don't.  So lay your so-called proof out on the table for examination, or go play somewhere else.

[McQ]

Why is anyone even trying to argue with this joker?  It's pretty obvious Messenger knows nothing at all about logic, can't frame a proper argument, is incapable of reading and comprehending other people's arguments, has little to no formal education, apparently is incapable of comprehending much beyond some fundie websites, and has no other purpose than to spout utter nonsense in defense of a nonexistent figment of his/her imagination.

After half a dozen threads of Messenger's unfortunate and pathetic attempts to proselytize, I'm surprised anyone is bothering to give him/her/it the time of day.  Yep, I'm a big meanie atheist and I'm not in the mood for circular logic today.

And lastly, Messenger, you keep telling us to wait and you'll prove god to us.  That's bullshit.  Either you have proof or you don't.  So lay your so-called proof out on the table for examination, or go play somewhere else.

I'm on your sheet of music with you, Faithless. See my post regarding his ban. I got tired of his incessant babbling and failure to comply with forum rules. We'll see if a "time out" helps.

[Messenger]

As God can only exist outside U, if nothing exists outside he does not exists

Yes, that is true (if you can prove it)

The correct path is to prove if something exist outside the universe or not
Which I can prove that there must be something (We can refer to it now as G)

Then the next step is to prove if G=God or something else

[Kyuuketsuki]

As God can only exist outside U, if nothing exists outside he does not exists

Yes, that is true (if you can prove it)

The correct path is to prove if something exist outside the universe or not
Which I can prove that there must be something (We can refer to it now as G)

Then the next step is to prove if G=God or something else

You haven't proven G is yet.

Kyu

[BadPoison]

As God can only exist outside U, if nothing exists outside he does not exists

Yes, that is true (if you can prove it)

The correct path is to prove if something exist outside the universe or not
Which I can prove that there must be something (We can refer to it now as G)

Then the next step is to prove if G=God or something else

You haven't proven G is yet.

Kyu

No, he hasn't. Messenger, please show us your proof for 'G'