SCHOOL PROJECT

[perspective]

Hello everyone, I am a christian and I have a school project to do. I have 6 questions that I need good scholary answers to, maybe like a paragraph per answer. I hope someone is up to the task. These questions are not meant to prove anything. They are for research. ok here they are.
1. Tell me what you think evil is.
2. Do you think the existence of evil and suffering is a serious obstacle to belief in God?
3. Do you think that free will explains most of the evil in the world?
4. Is your atheism a result of personal suffering, or the suffering of a loved one? If yes, could you share what happened? If no then why do you not believe in God?
5. Why do you think that atheism better explains the problem of evil than theism?
6. Some have said that the comfort from religious belief is that no deed done goes unnoticed from God, and that even if they "get away with it" from the eyes of justice, they will still be held accountable with God. Does the possibility of real justice (from theism) make it a promising way to look at the problem of evil?

[Sophus]

Hello perspective,

Hope I can be of some help to you. My responses are bellow. Let me know if it needs some tweaking or if the answers aren't quite what you're looking for. May I inquire as to what school you are attending? .....

1. Evil, I would say, while it technically doesn't truly exist, is a title forged by humans to define those with polar intentions or beliefs to their own. I think real evil is only when one has the intent to harm for ones own pleasure. Too often a group could be perceived as being evil by an opposing group merely because beliefs run contrary to theirs (best example being Pro-Life versus Pro-Choice), when in fact both parties can actually have equally good intentions. So, I believe that evil cannot be defined by beliefs and actions, but rather the intent those beliefs and actions are bent on.

2. If the God is presented as a being with unlimited power, an all loving personality and a perfectionist attitude I would say the existence of evil does make for a valid argument against His existence. The desire for perfection accompanied by loves protection could have easily rendered a perfect, all-loving universe from a creator who does not know failure. Us sensing evil's presence means either one of those characteristics the particular religion credits Him with is false, or much more likely the god itself is false.

3. While beliefs are not in the control of our freewill, I think the selfish desire, which ultimately engenders an evil heart in oneself, is a volition, should that desire be allowed to be wrought into an act of evil. However, I do not believe that evil can be committed if out of ignorance. The sociopath, born ignorant to all human moral code, has no sense to tell him that such selfishness is wrong. So freewill does not affect their decision making in choosing right or wrong, for to them there is no right or wrong, but perhaps there is only what is beneficial to them versus what is not. Therefore freewill is not the only influence on the conception of evil.

4. Fortunately, I have been a very fortunate person. However, had fate been different to me, I would still hold emotions as something that would hinder me from reaching a truthful answer in the case for a god. I consider no question in life greater, so naturally I dedicated a significant amount of time in thought, searching for a correct answer that I could be sure of. There are a vast number of reasons for why I do not believe in any sort of god, but ultimately it boils down to independent thinking in search for truth. It is not out of bitter feelings for something I can't even bring myself to believe exists.

5. I think that through an atheists open-minded consideration we can, in ourselves, bring down the walls of prejudice, embrace diversity in beliefs, and recognize the heart (or intentions) of others even when we do not share the same consensus in regard to things such as a moral issue. Thus exposing that much of the perceived "evil" in the world is anything but. As for the true evil that is without doubt, out there in the world - I cannot speak for every atheist but I would point to psychology, which can tell us what led each individual to evil. Whether it be a story of childhood trauma or if they were conceived a sociopath. Regardless, there will always be those who view giving in any form as an impoverishment; leading them to complete selfish and even wicked behavior.

6. Psychologically, yes. It is an appealing thought to humans who desire justice in society. However, an attractive offer from religious belief does not make it any more true. I would also point to the possibility that this expectation for justice is rooted in our minds for means of protection. This anticipated consequence, conjures fear. Thus preventing us from ever undergoing an act that could potentially threaten our survival.
As for me personally, I would prefer to examine the frank, cold and sometimes unpleasant truth than live in ignorant bliss. Also, if we are to desire the defeat of evil then we should work toward this goal ourselves here on earth. Depending on "Big Brother" to straighten things out after death won't do us any good in this lifetime. Which as far as we know, is all we really have.

[Whitney]

Hello everyone, I am a christian and I have a school project to do. I have 6 questions that I need good scholary answers to, maybe like a paragraph per answer. I hope someone is up to the task. These questions are not meant to prove anything. They are for research. ok here they are.

Hi, Perspective.  What kind of school project?  Is this for college or high school?

1. Tell me what you think evil is.

Evil is an act done by someone with the intent to cause harm to another person or creature.

2. Do you think the existence of evil and suffering is a serious obstacle to belief in God?

Evil, no.  Suffering (caused by nature), yes.

3. Do you think that free will explains most of the evil in the world?

Yes

4. Is your atheism a result of personal suffering, or the suffering of a loved one? If yes, could you share what happened? If no then why do you not believe in God?

No, I think it would be stupid to be an atheist solely due to suffering.  For why I don't believe please see my introduction post: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=73

5. Why do you think that atheism better explains the problem of evil than theism?

I don't think "atheism" was an explanation of the problem of evil.  Please explain your question.

6. Some have said that the comfort from religious belief is that no deed done goes unnoticed from God, and that even if they "get away with it" from the eyes of justice, they will still be held accountable with God. Does the possibility of real justice (from theism) make it a promising way to look at the problem of evil?

No, the problem of evil is not only about justice.

Suffering...I'd be willing to expand my answers further if you clarify as noted above.  It would also be nice if you tell us your thoughts on our answers and if they are in line with your expectations.  Btw, participation in the forum is a good way to get more people to want to answer your questions.  

[Arthur Dent]

Evil is purely subjective. In war, killing is glorified, whereas in most other situations, it's considered murder. Killing a fetus may be murder to you, but killing a cow may be considered murder to a member of PETA. Can't relate to a member of peta? In China, they eat dogs... Is that evil? Can you imagine if god were chinese and we all got in trouble to "wasting food" by keeping his creations as pets?

Additionally, paradigms shift constantly, shifting the social and cultural norms. Survival of the fittest is perfectly acceptable in the jungle, but within our society, it's frowned upon.

[Zarathustra]

1. Tell me what you think evil is.

Evil is a term we normally use for harmful actions (either physical or mental) inflicted upon human beings, that we have an attachment to.

2. Do you think the existence of evil and suffering is a serious obstacle to belief in God?

Yes, it is one of them, but not the most serious one.. Don't you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

3. Do you think that free will explains most of the evil in the world?

"Free will" is not an explanation for anything. Do a little more research for your schoolpaper on what "explanation" means.

4. Is your atheism a result of personal suffering, or the suffering of a loved one? If yes, could you share what happened?

No.

If no then why do you not believe in God?

Which God? (There are about 9000 to choose from, you know.)

5. Why do you think that atheism better explains the problem of evil than theism?

You have misunderstood something. "The problem of evil" is closely tied to the christian/jewish/muslim God-concept of an all-loving, omnipotent deity. It is neither a problem for any other religion nor for atheism.

6. Some have said that the comfort from religious belief is that no deed done goes unnoticed from God, and that even if they "get away with it" from the eyes of justice, they will still be held accountable with God. Does the possibility of real justice (from theism) make it a promising way to look at the problem of evil?

You have stated a christian viewpoint. It sounds like an empty "comfort" though. Look at the answer above. Or be more specific.

[Zarathustra]

3. Do you think that free will explains most of the evil in the world?

Yes

Why? What about soldiers obeying orders, for instance? Who is the evil one - the tormentor or the judge or the legislator or the society that elected him? If free will is an explanation, it should be clear.

"Free will" is a different discussion altogether, that the OP just suddenly introduce. But an explantion for anything it can't be. Its ontology is not even clearly defined as it is.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Hello everyone, I am a christian and I have a school project to do.

Poor you ... for the school project of course

I have 6 questions that I need good scholary answers to, maybe like a paragraph per answer. I hope someone is up to the task. These questions are not meant to prove anything.

I'm not convinced they're not meant to somehow *prove* something and I certainly cannot guarantee length of answer for such questions but here goes.

1. Tell me what you think evil is.

A religious invention designed to scare believers into a certain pattern of behaviour ... something like the bogeyman.

2. Do you think the existence of evil and suffering is a serious obstacle to belief in God?

Yes.

3. Do you think that free will explains most of the evil in the world?

I don't believe in evil but I would accept there are often appalling consequences our ability to do bad things ... conversely, at our best, we are beautiful.

4. Is your atheism a result of personal suffering, or the suffering of a loved one? If yes, could you share what happened? If no then why do you not believe in God?

No, that's a loaded question and I don't believe in your god because there is no validatable evidence for deity and, when you think about it, I don't believe in YOUR god for much the same reason YOU don't believe in THEIRS!

5. Why do you think that atheism better explains the problem of evil than theism?

Atheism explains nothing, it isn't a philosophy.
 

6. Some have said that the comfort from religious belief is that no deed done goes unnoticed from God, and that even if they "get away with it" from the eyes of justice, they will still be held accountable with God. Does the possibility of real justice (from theism) make it a promising way to look at the problem of evil?

No, religious beliefs are for the weak minded.

Kyu

[MariaEvri]

1. Tell me what you think evil is.
Evil is a human-made term that describes whatever harms him

2. Do you think the existence of evil and suffering is a serious obstacle to belief in God?
yes

3. Do you think that free will explains most of the evil in the world?
not really

4. Is your atheism a result of personal suffering, or the suffering of a loved one? If yes, could you share what happened? If no then why do you not believe in God?
no.

5. Why do you think that atheism better explains the problem of evil than theism?
Atheism is not set out to explain things. Atheism is a lack of belief in god.

6. Some have said that the comfort from religious belief is that no deed done goes unnoticed from God, and that even if they "get away with it" from the eyes of justice, they will still be held accountable with God. Does the possibility of real justice (from theism) make it a promising way to look at the problem of evil?[/quote]
i wouldnt think so, no

[perspective]

Sophus,
I have a follow up question, if you don't mind answering. By the way thank you so much for answering the other questions, I really appreciate the scholarly and honest answers. The follow up question is: In your search for truth did you read commentary on the Bible written from PhD's in the field of theology? If no, do you think that you would find logical reasonable answers? If yes, was it in anyway convencing?

[Kyuuketsuki]

No, I think it would be stupid to be an atheist solely due to suffering.  For why I don't believe please see my introduction post: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=73

Awwww... where's part 2?

Kyu

[Sophus]

Sophus,
I have a follow up question, if you don't mind answering. By the way thank you so much for answering the other questions, I really appreciate the scholarly and honest answers. The follow up question is: In your search for truth did you read commentary on the Bible written from PhD's in the field of theology? If no, do you think that you would find logical reasonable answers? If yes, was it in anyway convencing?

You're most welcome. Your study appears intrigueing....

I suppose you could call the ever popular C.S. Lewis a theologian of sorts. I read his book Mere Christianity which was thought provoking. However, for every crux Mr. Lewis made I found rebuttal was involuntarily conjured in my own thinking. And, while I didn't pay it as much attention, I do have a Bible that divides each page into verses and commentary from theologians. The thoughts are interesting but I'm not the sort of person to simply accept an argument without my own contemplation. Consequently I find flaw in them too easily. The statements seem more like justifications for why the god might exist as oppose to overwhelming evidence that suggests He absolutely must exist. I also find that the Theologians can't seem to agree on an interpretation of a verse.

[Kylyssa]

1. Tell me what you think evil is.
Action performed with the full knowledge of the harm it will cause to others.

2. Do you think the existence of evil and suffering is a serious obstacle to belief in God?
I think the lack of evidence of God's existence is a far greater obstacle.  However, I think that the existence of evil and suffering may cause theists to question the logic of their beliefs.  It probably takes a lot of mental contortions to get the belief in a loving God to make sense when God created evil and suffering.

3. Do you think that free will explains most of the evil in the world?
I think most of the evil in this world is caused by sociopathic or psychopathic pathologies, religious zealotry, and/or a lack of empathy.

4. Is your atheism a result of personal suffering, or the suffering of a loved one? If yes, could you share what happened? If no then why do you not believe in God?
No, my atheism is caused by the fact that I don't think God is real.  To put this question in perspective, substitute the words 'lack of belief in fairies' for the word 'atheism' and substitute the word 'fairies' for the word 'God' then think about how you would answer these questions:
Is your lack of belief in fairies a result of personal suffering, or the suffering of a loved one? If yes, could you share what happened? If no then why do you not believe in fairies?

5. Why do you think that atheism better explains the problem of evil than theism?
Atheism is just like that lack of belief in fairies, it is something that isn't rather than something that is.  Being an absence, atheism explains nothing.  Atheism is the belief that God is not a real thing.  Atheists often apply the same logic to the rest of the universe resulting in not believing in supernatural things like ghosts and fairies.  Just as your non-belief in fairies doesn't explain evil, my non-belief in God doesn't either.

6. Some have said that the comfort from religious belief is that no deed done goes unnoticed from God, and that even if they "get away with it" from the eyes of justice, they will still be held accountable with God. Does the possibility of real justice (from theism) make it a promising way to look at the problem of evil?
If God were real, it would be a lovely and promising way to look at the problem of evil.  However, for it to be a legitimate way to look at the problem of evil, it would first have to be real.  Many things that are lovely and desirable ideas are not real, either.  Fairy Godmothers who came out of nowhere and saved poverty stricken little girls from abusive families would be a great solution to child abuse.  Unfortunately, they aren't real, no matter how attractive the idea may be.

Instead, I suggest that human beings take responsibility for fighting evil themselves.  This can be accomplished through many ways -
Creating a society where children grow up safe and loved so as to prevent the development of sociopathic and psychopathic pathologies
Teaching children to love one another and all humanity
Making mental health care and intervention available to all without fear of stigmatization
Refusing to allow the marginalization of any members of society
Removing evildoers from society by imprisoning them
Focusing on compassionate courses of action rather than on self-serving courses of action
Placing more value on people rather than on objects
Providing a police force to prevent crime and to apprehend criminals

Honestly, I could go on for days about the real world solution to the problem of evil and I'm sure you could, too, if you just thought about it for a moment.
 

[Whitney]

No, I think it would be stupid to be an atheist solely due to suffering.  For why I don't believe please see my introduction post: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=73

Awwww... where's part 2?

Kyu

I never got around to writing part 2 because I realized it would require a book rather than a long post.

3. Do you think that free will explains most of the evil in the world?

Yes

Why? What about soldiers obeying orders, for instance? Who is the evil one - the tormentor or the judge or the legislator or the society that elected him? If free will is an explanation, it should be clear.

I defined evil as the intent to cause harm to another person or creature so society would not be evil if they unknowingly elected someone who wanted to cause harm.  The soldiers always have the option to disobey orders they find immoral...not that it is easy to just disobey an order since there can be large consequences; but they do retain their free will when they join the army.

Anyway, I should have asked for clarification of the question. Free will certainly does not account for all the bad stuff in the word...just all of the evil (as I defined it).

[Whitney]

Sophus,
I have a follow up question, if you don't mind answering. By the way thank you so much for answering the other questions, I really appreciate the scholarly and honest answers. The follow up question is: In your search for truth did you read commentary on the Bible written from PhD's in the field of theology? If no, do you think that you would find logical reasonable answers? If yes, was it in anyway convencing?

I have read various works written by people with degrees in philosophy related to the philosophy of religion.   I've read some of Aquinas's work related to his views of salvation through christ.  I've read commentary on the bible from many sources over the years, I don't know how many of them had doctorates in theology.  Considering that when I did believe I considered the Bible allegorical, I've never been that interested in finding out how every little contradiction could be corrected.  I seriously doubt any of them have reasonable answers for why slavery is condoned in the OT and women are treated in a second class manner throughout the bible...the best reason I've heard so far is "it was a different time period."  I don't think I should have to explain why that is illogical when we are supposed to be speaking of a timeless god.  Even if the bible did not have any issues I would not find it convincing...I like the beliefs of Buddhism yet I am not a Buddhist because there is no reason to think any of it is true.

Btw, I'd still appreciate if you answered some of the questions I had related to your questions.

[Zarathustra]

I defined evil as the intent to cause harm to another person or creature so society would not be evil if they unknowingly elected someone who wanted to cause harm.  The soldiers always have the option to disobey orders they find immoral

Well death is often a consequence of disobeying orders. I think our survival instinct would suspend ethics if confronted with that choice... (I know you can always choose to die yourself, but that's not likely.) But I can see you are aware of this, as you also wrote:

...not that it is easy to just disobey an order since there can be large consequences;

I disagree with this, though:

but they do retain their free will when they join the army.

Not in most countries. There are lots of countries that has mandatory army duty for all male members (my country among others), and deathpenalty for not obeying orders (not my country, luckily). I'd say that free will has been suspended completely in countries where both enforcements apply. As far as the US goes, I agree with you: The soldiers have a moral choice.

Anyway, I should have asked for clarification of the question. Free will certainly does not account for all the bad stuff in the word...just all of the evil (as I defined it).

Yeah, that's why I wrote the question. Your answer could so easily be misinterpreted by a theist, and I thought you might mean what you wrote here.