Islam

[Wael El-Manzalawy]

I used to discuss many secular persons about Islam. They had some questions and objectios. I am trying here to answer some of their questions.

Atheist: Islam has spread by the sword.

Muslim: This is not true. Islam has spread in many countries in Asia and Africa without any military action. The Islamic civilization is a fact that cannot be denied. Ask Europe about the Islamic civilization in Spain and the darkness of Europe. Islam is not a barbaric religion. But Islam is the true religion. The Islamic civilization used the military actions for defence and for attacking some enemies. But the muslims did not enforce anyone to convert to Islam. The muslims treated non-muslims justly. They wanted to convince them not to enforce them to convert to Islam.

Atheist: I do not need any religion.

Muslim: Who has created the universe? Who has created you? What is the aim of your life? What will happen to you after death? All these are questions that you cannot find answers to without Islam. Besides, you enjoy materialistic pleasures, but you neglect your soul. Islam achieves the balance and harmony between the soul and the body. Islam does not forbid materialistic pleasures, but Islam is a unit of enjoying our lives and more important obeying our God and Creator.

Atheist: There is no soul.

Muslim: You deny the presence of the soul because you cannot see and cannot touch the soul. We cannot see electricity, but we are sure that there is some thing called electricity because we can see its effects -the light and the heat for example-. Equally, we cannot see the soul, but we can see its effects. What is the difference between two young men: one of them can talk and move while the other is dead without any reason? He did not suffer from any disease. He was not the victim of any accident. The difference is that the soul of the first one is inside his body while the soul of the second one had left his body.

Atheist: What is the difference between Islam and Christianity?

Muslim: The true Christianity invited people to worship One Deity, but some of its followers changed it. The unchanged Bible said that there will be a prophet called Muhammad or Ahmed and invited christians to follow him.
The untrue christianity says that there is a God and his son. This is untrue. If the God decided something and his son decided another thing, what will happen? There will be a conflict between the God and his son. In Islam, there is only One God and He has no sons.

Atheist: There is no God.

Muslim: The universe is changable, so it cannot be eternal. The God created the universe. The God is eternal. I invite you to rethink about the presence of the God and to read the Holy Quran. I invite you to read about Islam from the Islamic point of view.

[curiosityandthecat]

I have two things to say.

First,


And second,

[Martian]

Awesome.

Now all you have to do is show that your extraordinary claims are true with some extraordinary evidence.

Good luck.

[Stoicheion]

None of that was rational.

That first claim is an outright lie. But the same goes for christianity. There are just as many terrorist groups that cling to the muslim faith as there are bible thumping terrorist bigots like Fred Phelps. I'd advise you to look him up if you have not already. True there probably are honest people spreading the word of Islam through honorable means but that does not erase the fact that there are people spreading it by torture and oppression.

I don't care who made me. As far as i'm concerned, my mother and my father did. That's it. The end. All i care about now is living my life how I want. I go by moral standards that prove their worth in my experience instead of useless theistic values instilled by a story.

First of all, we CAN see electricity. What is lightning if not electricity? If you turn out the lights and rub wool socks on your carpet you can see the static between you and the person you touch. I believe we are conscious because of science. The heart pumps blood to the brain, which conducts electric impulses to control our reactions to the world around us.

True, the universe is changeable and is not eternal. That, we can and have proved. Now prove that God made the universe.

[Asmodean]

Are you going to address the answers you got in your other post with islam in its title?

If not and if I promise you that my cactus will convert and worship allah and become a martyr and get 72 cacti-virgins, will that make your task of BSing us to sleep complete so that you may go pester someone else?

I used to discuss many secular persons about Islam. They had some questions and objectios. I am trying here to answer some of their questions.

Either you are full of BS or those you were "talking" to were dumb or in fact pretending to be "secular".

Here are some follow-ups for you.

Muslim: This is not true. Islam has spread in many countries in Asia and Africa without any military action. The Islamic civilization is a fact that cannot be denied. Ask Europe about the Islamic civilization in Spain and the darkness of Europe. Islam is not a barbaric religion. But Islam is the true religion. The Islamic civilization used the military actions for defence and for attacking some enemies. But the muslims did not enforce anyone to convert to Islam. The muslims treated non-muslims justly. They wanted to convince them not to enforce them to convert to Islam.

Me: That is a lie. At least some key points are.

Muslim: Who has created the universe? Who has created you? What is the aim of your life? What will happen to you after death? All these are questions that you cannot find answers to without Islam. Besides, you enjoy materialistic pleasures, but you neglect your soul. Islam achieves the balance and harmony between the soul and the body. Islam does not forbid materialistic pleasures, but Islam is a unit of enjoying our lives and more important obeying our God and Creator.

A "who" did not create the universe. A "what" did. I was created by my parents. The aim of my life is to continue living. After I die, I will decompose.

There. I have just given you the answers not only without islam, but with no religious bias what so ever.

That said, here is a question for you: why is it that your god needs me to obey it? And more importantly, I care if it does because..?

Muslim: You deny the presence of the soul because you cannot see and cannot touch the soul. We cannot see electricity, but we are sure that there is some thing called electricity because we can see its effects -the light and the heat for example-. Equally, we cannot see the soul, but we can see its effects. What is the difference between two young men: one of them can talk and move while the other is dead without any reason? He did not suffer from any disease. He was not the victim of any accident. The difference is that the soul of the first one is inside his body while the soul of the second one had left his body.

I deny the presence of the soul because there is NO scientific evidence to support its existence, it has no "void" to fill and the idea itself is ridiculous.

We can easily illustrate electricity and prove its existence beyond ANY doubt. We can also see electricity as movement of electrons. This comparison of yours is beyond bad.

Your second question is also ridiculous. The dead guy can't walk or talk because his CPU is down and decomposing and his pump is not pumping. The other guy can walk and talk because his pump is pumping and his neurons are firing. So, sorry to disappoint you, but there are no effects of a "soul" in your example that I can see.

Muslim: The true Christianity invited people to worship One Deity, but some of its followers changed it. The unchanged Bible said that there will be a prophet called Muhammad or Ahmed and invited christians to follow him.
The untrue christianity says that there is a God and his son. This is untrue. If the God decided something and his son decided another thing, what will happen? There will be a conflict between the God and his son. In Islam, there is only One God and He has no sons.

1. I would never ask a muzzie about the difference between Christianity and Islam. Not many other atheists I know would either.

2. And you know that because..? Oh wait! I know! The Bookâ,,¢!   Well, the Xians have one too. Two, actually.

Muslim: The universe is changable, so it cannot be eternal. The God created the universe. The God is eternal. I invite you to rethink about the presence of the God and to read the Holy Quran. I invite you to read about Islam from the Islamic point of view.

I've addressed this bullshit before. Not gonna do it again.

[rlrose328]

Oh sweet kitty cat of iced-tea land... I'm so sick of these posts.  They make me sad for the future of this world and my son's future, with the holy war that is bound to occur, through no fault of the atheist community.

Sir... if Islam is not violent and doesn't use the "sword" to make its conversions, why did members of your belief fly planes into the twin towers, thus killing 3000+ "infidels" and why do members of your belief continue to threaten other nations, be it with blood or lawsuits when they are offended?

[Squid]

I used to discuss many secular persons about Islam. They had some questions and objectios. I am trying here to answer some of their questions.

Atheist: Islam has spread by the sword.

Muslim: This is not true. Islam has spread in many countries in Asia and Africa without any military action. The Islamic civilization is a fact that cannot be denied. Ask Europe about the Islamic civilization in Spain and the darkness of Europe. Islam is not a barbaric religion. But Islam is the true religion. The Islamic civilization used the military actions for defence and for attacking some enemies. But the muslims did not enforce anyone to convert to Islam. The muslims treated non-muslims justly. They wanted to convince them not to enforce them to convert to Islam <snip>

Dio is not impressed...

[csphd]

Islam is the only true religion, there is a need to differentiate act of few that cannot be heaped upon the religion itself, some proofs:
1)Allah has revealed to mankind 1400 years back embrological details that we have recently came to know
2)Allah says in the Quran that He made mountains so that the earth may not shake (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
3)Allah says He created every living thing from Water (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
4)Allah says that skies and the Earth were one (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
5)Allah says he created sky to protect thee (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
6)Allah says that He created Earth in six days(a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
7)Allah says in Holy Quran that we made the Earth for you like an egg of an ostrich (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
..............List goes on
None but Creator of all these can tell mankinf hundreds of years back what no man would have thought
As muslims we believe in Islam, Christanity and Jewism. All are religions of One and Same God (Allah). All invite people to worship to God.
The only difference being that Christians and Jews astrayed from the teachings of their prophet and made changes in their Holy books only
the Holy book of the muslims is in original form. There is One and only one Quran.
About 9/11 and other such happenings, majority of the Muslims are peace loving. Further even Farenheight 9/11 and many other videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE
no one can surely tell what were the culprits behind but who ever it was all muslims stand for their punishment accoring to law and all Muslim countries (Pakistan etc.) have laid lives of their
soldiers for this cause (in connection with terrorist huntdown).

[Kyuuketsuki]

Islam is the only true religion

Yawn!!!

You know there's a guy here called Titan who reckons his religion, Christianity, is the one true religion (apparently, though curiously he hasn't managed it so far, it's easy to show why Christianity has that singular honour) and there have been others who argue much the same about Sikhism, Buddhism and so on ... interestingly none of you recognise the other's right to that claim.

What would be really, really great (call it a challenge if you will) is if the two of you (maybe even a few more) could get together and actually figure out what "the one true religion" really is (I'm sure the boss would even create you a separate debating forum where us atheist could look, point at the dumb theists and laugh ) and then come back to us so we can pull your views apart piece by piece. Are you up for that? Somehow I doubt it.

In the meantime, if it's OK by you (it's called sarcasm, OK?), we'll just carry on assuming EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ONE of you idiots is wrong?

Have a nice life (but if you're not going to do the challenge above please have it elsewhere)

Kyu

[Asmodean]

See what them Islamic types are doing over in India these past days?  

[Zarathustra]

I just noticed something funny: In the original post (except for the part of the difference between islam and christianity) you can easily replace the word "Islam" with "Christianity" and no one would know it hadn't been made by a christian.

[jcm]

Islam is the only true religion, there is a need to differentiate act of few that cannot be heaped upon the religion itself, some proofs:
1)Allah has revealed to mankind 1400 years back embrological details that we have recently came to know
2)Allah says in the Quran that He made mountains so that the earth may not shake (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
3)Allah says He created every living thing from Water (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
4)Allah says that skies and the Earth were one (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
5)Allah says he created sky to protect thee (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
6)Allah says that He created Earth in six days(a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
7)Allah says in Holy Quran that we made the Earth for you like an egg of an ostrich (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
..............List goes on

here you go:

1)someone said Allah has revealed to mankind 1400 years back embrological details that we have recently came to know
2)someone said Allah says in the Quran that He made mountains so that the earth may not shake (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
3)someone said Allah says He created every living thing from Water (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
4)someone said Allah says that skies and the Earth were one (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
5)someone said Allah says he created sky to protect thee (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
6)someone said Allah says that He created Earth in six days(a proven fact after many hundreds of years)
7)someone said Allah says in Holy Quran that we made the Earth for you like an egg of an ostrich (a proven fact after many hundreds of years)

[wheels5894]

Atheist: Islam has spread by the sword.

Muslim: This is not true. Islam has spread in many countries in Asia and Africa without any military action. The Islamic civilization is a fact that cannot be denied. Ask Europe about the Islamic civilization in Spain and the darkness of Europe. Islam is not a barbaric religion. But Islam is the true religion. The Islamic civilization used the military actions for defence and for attacking some enemies. But the muslims did not enforce anyone to convert to Islam. The muslims treated non-muslims justly. They wanted to convince them not to enforce them to convert to Islam.

OK, but, why does Islam find it necessary to put to death anyone who wants to leave Islam for another religion or for none? Is it not the case that it holds onto people by fear - fear of a frightening afterlife and fear or retribution by way of real physical violence  for not being obedient?

Atheist: What is the difference between Islam and Christianity?

Muslim: The true Christianity invited people to worship One Deity, but some of its followers changed it. The unchanged Bible said that there will be a prophet called Muhammad or Ahmed and invited christians to follow him.
The untrue christianity says that there is a God and his son. This is untrue. If the God decided something and his son decided another thing, what will happen? There will be a conflict between the God and his son. In Islam, there is only One God and He has no sons.

Interesting, this Unchanged Bible! Can you tell me where I can see this Unchanged Bible to compare it with other manuscripts we have? If not, how can we know there was a different text from that which we have today? (I am assuming we are talking about the Christian Bible here and not the Qur'an)

[curiosityandthecat]

I'm assuming everyone missed this the first time, so I'm posting it again.

[Asmodean]

Wasn't it permatrolled in stead? It says "detained member", not banned in the user description. And I think those can view the forums and post in Religion ... ..?

Did I get it right, Laetus?