Judas Iscariot- heaven or hell?

[susangail]

jamesatracy's post made me think of a question I've always wanted to ask when I was a Christian, but I was too scared to for some reason... so I thought I'd ask it now (though I don't care much about it anymore)

Assuming for a second that everything in the Bible is true, where did Judas go: heaven or hell? He believed in Jesus (at least I would think so) which is the basis of getting "saved". But I don't know how you got saved back then when Jesus was alive (the first time) cause the whole believing in Him to wash away your sins thing didn't come until He died and rose. But even if all you had to do to go to heaven was believe in Jesus and accept Him into your heart, and assuming Judas did that, wouldn't selling Him out cancel Judas' believing in Him? But then, it was in God's Plan for Judas to betray Jesus so is it really Judas' fault? It just seems kind of wrong to send someone to eternal torture for doing what they were "meant to". The Bible even says (somewhere, can't remember where) that someone had to betray Jesus and God set it up in His Plan. But then again, God's Plan sends tons of people to hell... now I'm rambling.  

I don't know. This has probably already been "answered" but I was just curious what people on here thought.

Oh and just as a random afterthought: I know some people at my church that say "Judas Iscariot!" as a curse when someone would normally say like "Jesus Christ!" or even "holy shit!" I just thought that was funny... they treat him like such a horrible guy. Why don't they also use Lucifer or Satan as a curse?

[Will]

It depends on what religious school of thought you come from. I was raised in the LCMS, which is completely faith. In the LCMS, Judas believing Jesus was god was an automatic in. Others include works. Judas probably fails in that department.

[myleviathan]

jamesatracy's post made me think of a question I've always wanted to ask when I was a Christian, but I was too scared to for some reason... so I thought I'd ask it now (though I don't care much about it anymore)

Assuming for a second that everything in the Bible is true, where did Judas go: heaven or hell? He believed in Jesus (at least I would think so) which is the basis of getting "saved". But I don't know how you got saved back then when Jesus was alive (the first time) cause the whole believing in Him to wash away your sins thing didn't come until He died and rose. But even if all you had to do to go to heaven was believe in Jesus and accept Him into your heart, and assuming Judas did that, wouldn't selling Him out cancel Judas' believing in Him? But then, it was in God's Plan for Judas to betray Jesus so is it really Judas' fault? It just seems kind of wrong to send someone to eternal torture for doing what they were "meant to". The Bible even says (somewhere, can't remember where) that someone had to betray Jesus and God set it up in His Plan. But then again, God's Plan sends tons of people to hell... now I'm rambling.

I don't know. This has probably already been "answered" but I was just curious what people on here thought.

Oh and just as a random afterthought: I know some people at my church that say "Judas Iscariot!" as a curse when someone would normally say like "Jesus Christ!" or even "holy shit!" I just thought that was funny... they treat him like such a horrible guy. Why don't they also use Lucifer or Satan as a curse?

The Baptist reply to that question is Burn Baby Burn! Nobody who had ever experienced the wondrous love of Jesus and then turned his back on him should expect any less than to have his skin flayed and then be raped mercilessly by demons!

The character of Judas is used as a moral tale of those who turn their backs on Jesus after having a 'relationship' with him. He would have to go to Hell based on principle alone. I think whether he went to hell or not was insinuated by the manner in which he died... his intestines exploded! And then there's Mel Gibson's take on it in the movie "The Passion". Judas gets left alone with those creepy demon kids, I assume for all eternity.

[MariaEvri]

ok well how I saw it when I was a christian... Judas was Jesus's favourite student. He must hve been, otherwise why trust him with the difficult tusk of giving him to the romans. It was his plan to die that was and Judas was the one chosen to "hel" him
Judas took on his showlders his "reputation" as well as the world's hate, to do what his teacher trusted him. So I believed that he must have gone not only in heaven, but at the right hand of god
then again, if no, God must have been a real ass for condemning Jusdas to hell, since he knew what he was going to do long before Jesus himself was born.
My opinion

[susangail]

ok well how I saw it when I was a christian... Judas was Jesus's favourite student. He must hve been, otherwise why trust him with the difficult tusk of giving him to the romans. It was his plan to die that was and Judas was the one chosen to "hel" him
Judas took on his showlders his "reputation" as well as the world's hate, to do what his teacher trusted him. So I believed that he must have gone not only in heaven, but at the right hand of god

I wouldn't necessarily call him Jesus' favorite (wasn't that John?) but I see what you mean. I think people bag on him too much now a days. Judas and Lucifer/Satan, forever misunderstood.

then again, if no, God must have been a real ass for condemning Jusdas to hell, since he knew what he was going to do long before Jesus himself was born.
My opinion

Exactly what I was trying to say when I started this.

[jamesatracy]

Susan, that's a great question! I will have to ask that to the next Christian I see (or at least meet online).

It might depend on how Judas died. If he hung himself that is considered suicide, which some believe will send you straight to hell. But then again in Acts he seems to just trip and fall - but his guts spill out, which is really weird. Like God stuck his invisible leg out and finished him off for good.

[Dickson]

What a fascinating question.  Here's my off-the-cuff reply (while I'm in my own kind of hell--waiting on hold for a Dell customer service rep to pick up the phone)

1.  There is no Hell.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a Christian who doesn't believe in hell.  That's a whole other conversation entirely (but, I'm not alone on this).

2.  Technically, Judas set the crucifixion/resurrection event in motion, so he's partially responsible for salvation.  

3.  Indeed, MariaEvri has a beautiful point.  

I'm going to chew on this question some more (assuming, of course, I ever get off the phone----oh, fuck it, I'm hanging up).

[susangail]

What a fascinating question.  Here's my off-the-cuff reply (while I'm in my own kind of hell--waiting on hold for a Dell customer service rep to pick up the phone)

1.  There is no Hell.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a Christian who doesn't believe in hell.  That's a whole other conversation entirely (but, I'm not alone on this).

2.  Technically, Judas set the crucifixion/resurrection event in motion, so he's partially responsible for salvation.  

3.  Indeed, MariaEvri has a beautiful point.  

I'm going to chew on this question some more (assuming, of course, I ever get off the phone----oh, fuck it, I'm hanging up).

Hmm... you should start a topic on your views of hell (or the lack of one rather).
I don't believe in hell either (or any afterlife) but I meant the question as if heaven and hell were real. I like your point on number two.

[Will]

Hmm... Judas's actions were preordained, therefore he cannot be held responsible for them. It's the old free will question. Without free will one cannot be held responsible. With free will, there cannot be supernatural intervention.

[MikeyV]

Dickson already touched on where I was going to go with my reply.

Judas was necessary. Without his betrayal, there would have been no crucifixion/resurrection. I doubt that Jesus dying a natural death would have sated Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti's passion for violent bloody death.

If you read the Gospel of Judas, Judas is a secondary agent, and Jesus asks him to set in motion the "betrayal". Based on that non-canonical gospel, Judas was only following God's orders, therefore he's in heaven.

[MariaEvri]

3.  Indeed, MariaEvri has a beautiful point.  

and yet when I ask people why they burn judas at easter, ince he actually did Gods will, they stare at me and say "you think too much". Go figure

[Dickson]

and yet when I ask people why they burn judas at easter, ince he actually did Gods will, they stare at me and say "you think too much". Go figure

Hang on--people burn Judas at Easter?  Yikes.  I've lived in Mississippi all my life and I've never heard of such.

[jamesatracy]

I'm a Christian who doesn't believe in hell.

I for one am curious how that works.

[Will]

I for one am curious how that works.

Much the same as most Christians eat shellfish, I would imagine....

There's no such thing as a Christian litteralist. One cannot follow all of the rules and beliefs in the Bible, as many are contradictory. So in picking and choosing what to believe, a Christian can simply dismiss things he or she sees as being TOO unreasonable. "Hell? Pushaw, forget that. I'll believe only in heaven and then the church can't lord that over me." Eternal damnation is a bit of a downer.

I find it's a lot simpler not to believe any of it, but to each their own I suppose.

[susangail]

3.  Indeed, MariaEvri has a beautiful point.  

and yet when I ask people why they burn judas at easter, ince he actually did Gods will, they stare at me and say "you think too much". Go figure

Them: "You think too much."
You: "And that's a bad thing....?"