Continuum of Preparedness

[Gawen]

Should be a cool thread.

Oh yeah think so. I know I've got a lot to learn most definitely...

Do you have any recommendations as far as resources for learning?  Books, websites, etc?

As far as other people, my sister is very interested in preparedness but is a newb like me.  I also have a couple of friends who have voiced some interest as well; one of them is very interested in learning to make wine, beer and biodiesel at home...I just hope he doesn't mix them up...

Hmmmm...there are quite a few survival/prepping/self reliance discussion boards out these days. Honestly, don't waste your money on the books when you can get all the ideas for free off the internet. Of course, you'll come across a book, I'm sure.

Now is the most opportune time to get all these people you mention together and talk about it. I too can make beer and simple wine (well, in the old days). But I need the ingredients planted to make them. I'm not about to store all the stuff to make it...yet.

One thing I learned about some of these DB's. Don't ever say you're an atheist. Way too many Christian preppers out there that will make your particular DB experience less than desirable. Some of these people are complete whack jobs....but I'll give them this...they know how to prep.

OH!!  Just for starters...
LDS Preparedness Manual
http://mormonshare.com/lds-clipart/lds-emergency-preparedness-manual
or here
http://www.ldspreparedness.com/id125.htm

[Squid]

Very cool, thanks for the links.  I'll have to give it a read this soon.

The pack I have is fairly basic but it did come with an integrated Camelback.  A lot of my items I do need to repackage like the first aid kit - or rather they should have called it Band Aids and medical tape kit - it was a cheapo from like WalMart or something, it was a gift along with a sling shot from my sister. I was actually looking at different small med kits to get some ideas for beefing mine up to a more useful package.

[Gawen]

This is the pack I have:
http://www.lapolicegear.com/diplomat-3-day-backpack1.html

It's quite stuffed. The med gear is in an external MOLLE pouch by itself and attached to the pack. The extra boots are secured to the large pack as well. The sleeping bag and tarp are rolled up together and attached to the bottom of the pack (the tarp is on the 'inside' roll of the sleeping bag to keep it from making noise).

It must be about a year ago I found out a friend of mine is a prepper. Ya see, I don't talk about it much at all and it came up in conversation about the world economy and various politics. I found out a long time ago that one just can't make it on his/her own in a total SHTF scenario. Sure, I have plenty of food and water in case of a minor/medium emergency and I think everyone should. But if it really went bad...

Well, I have this friend who's a firefighter/EMT. A huge boon to my plans. And for about a year we've been prepping our life insurance...in case we never have to use it. After all, smart people keep a spare tire and a jack in their vehicle in case they never have to use it, right? And people have home/auto/life insurance in case they never have to use it, right? Same with prepping. But...

Even though he lives about 8 miles out of the city in a very lightly built up chunk of country, we both know that the 6 of us still can't make it alone. Actually, there's 6 of us; my family of four and his wife. Well, that's fine and dandy if an F5 tornado came through and wiped the city away. But if the world ever takes a slump so bad that we feel our way of life is untenable, we're bugging out to his place...knowing that the 6 of us will be hard pressed.

Just last week he found another firefighter who has linked up with three others. In total, that's around 22 people, all adults save two. This is a well rounded number, small enough to make a difference and not large enough to cause problems. We checked them out last Thursday during lunch and meeting next Tuesday at my friends house. I will know by then if I want to join up with them. I have certain parameters I adhere to.

On top of that, I know at least 4 other preppers that work for the city I work for. None of them I would link up with for various reasons. So, people like Whitney should know there are people out there that want to and need the help.

[Squid]

This is the pack I have:
http://www.lapolicegear.com/diplomat-3-day-backpack1.html

I had run across a pack just like that but it was about $100 more expensive because it was Blackhawk.

It's quite stuffed. The med gear is in an external MOLLE pouch by itself and attached to the pack. The extra boots are secured to the large pack as well. The sleeping bag and tarp are rolled up together and attached to the bottom of the pack (the tarp is on the 'inside' roll of the sleeping bag to keep it from making noise).

It must be about a year ago I found out a friend of mine is a prepper. Ya see, I don't talk about it much at all and it came up in conversation about the world economy and various politics. I found out a long time ago that one just can't make it on his/her own in a total SHTF scenario. Sure, I have plenty of food and water in case of a minor/medium emergency and I think everyone should. But if it really went bad...

Well, I have this friend who's a firefighter/EMT. A huge boon to my plans. And for about a year we've been prepping our life insurance...in case we never have to use it. After all, smart people keep a spare tire and a jack in their vehicle in case they never have to use it, right? And people have home/auto/life insurance in case they never have to use it, right? Same with prepping. But...

Even though he lives about 8 miles out of the city in a very lightly built up chunk of country, we both know that the 6 of us still can't make it alone. Actually, there's 6 of us; my family of four and his wife. Well, that's fine and dandy if an F5 tornado came through and wiped the city away. But if the world ever takes a slump so bad that we feel our way of life is untenable, we're bugging out to his place...knowing that the 6 of us will be hard pressed.

Just last week he found another firefighter who has linked up with three others. In total, that's around 22 people, all adults save two. This is a well rounded number, small enough to make a difference and not large enough to cause problems. We checked them out last Thursday during lunch and meeting next Tuesday at my friends house. I will know by then if I want to join up with them. I have certain parameters I adhere to.

On top of that, I know at least 4 other preppers that work for the city I work for. None of them I would link up with for various reasons. So, people like Whitney should know there are people out there that want to and need the help.

I haven't run across too many people yet other than my sister and a couple of other close friends but I think it's a start.

[Gawen]

I had run across a pack just like that but it was about $100 more expensive because it was Blackhawk.

I have come to think, in certain circumstances, that I would rather have 3 cheaper items for the price of one expensive item. I'm thinking it would be better to have two back up items after the first falls apart after a couple years rather than one item that may not last as long as the other three combined...in the same environment.

I haven't run across too many people yet other than my sister and a couple of other close friends but I think it's a start.

And it's a great start!
There is a fine line to be tread here. You simply don't go about informing people you prep (or you have a prepping group). If it comes up through conversation, that's one thing and you can feel them out. Never ever tell anyone not in your group what you have and where you're going or where you live. The group members must maintain complete secrecy in these matters. Anyone in your group that cannot commit to the group, commit the time or the money or have loose lips must be cast away. Do understand that not everyone can devote everything all at the same time and finances...but keep an eye out for those that are referred to as "Clingers". Clingers WILL show up at your doorstep with little or next to nothing to sustain them and so will every other person they told.

Security is a priority.

[Squid]

I think in such situations opsec is a must.  I can imagine if I had nothing but I knew someone who did and I was starving and desperate, that'd be the first place I'd head to.

Also, I ran across an interesting site that I thought could be handy:

http://www.stilltasty.com/

I also remember while poking around about medical supplies the topic of some folks utilizing fish or other animal antibiotics because they can get them without a prescription.  Living in south Texas in a somewhat rural area I walk by the stuff for livestock all the time but just never made the connection....it was a "duh" moment.

[The Magic Pudding]

So at what odds do you guys rate the chance that you'll ever have to put your plans into action?
What are the most likely perceived threats?
Is it a fun thing to do, worth the expense even if the shit doesn't hit the fan in our time?

[Gawen]

So at what odds do you guys rate the chance that you'll ever have to put your plans into action?
What are the most likely perceived threats?
Is it a fun thing to do, worth the expense even if the shit doesn't hit the fan in our time?

Well, you never know when you'll have to use your auto insurance, do you? At any rate, no one knows when that tornado or earthquake or hurricane comes along. I have no clue if or when me or my wife may lose our job. I don't know if that Nor' Easter will cut off electricity for 3 days or 3 weeks. I don't know when the Northeastern Seaboard will ever have another brown/blackout. Will a terrorist ever blow off a dirty nuke? Will a terrorist ever let loose an airborne biological or inject something simple like diesel fuel into the water system?

Most perceived threat? As far as I'm concerned, the economy. My bank has a CD that I can put $1000 in. At the end of the year that CD is worth $1005. If I bought $1000 worth of food, would the food be worth more at the end of the year? What would you think would be the better investment? I'm no world economist, but I simply can't see any fix for the economy. Hyper inflation looms and no one, despite their intentions and good will seems to have no effect in keeping it away. There are too many things to do to fix the economy and no politician would ever implement these things if they ever wanted to be reelected. Too many people will be hurt. You just can't shut off a 'nanny' "entitlement" society and expect things will be fine in a year.

No...the economy is doomed...not the world.

Prepping is something different to many people. For some, it's a way of life no different than our great great grandfathers. For some it's an obsession, based on paranoia. For some, it's great fun because it covers a very wide range of things to do, cooking/recipes/canning, growing your own food, construction, firearms, wilderness survival, etc. All the people in this new group I'm checking out feel the economy is the #1 thing to prep for. Four out of the seven male adults are first responders. Three of those have been to post Katrina and know first hand what happens in a disaster. They want to be prepared and as self sufficient as they can be. I enjoy being around those that have the same or similar thoughts. Thankfully, none of them (yet) show signs of obsession...you know, the world is ending doom and gloom kinda shit.

What if it doesn't happen? Well, I consider it an insurance policy to hand down to my kids, if it does or doesn't happen.

But consider Pakistan and India, India's, China's, Europe's, American and Russia's economies, America's war in the Middle East, potential war with Iran, North Korea.

[Amicale]

If I can ask... what is it you guys are preparing for? A major war? A nuclear war/disaster? Major flood? Localized storms/fighting? Zombie attack?

See, I'm asking because I have enough experience with survivalists and preppers, but it was an experience unfortunately tainted by a very strong religious perspective -- some hardcore traditional Catholics (among other groups, I'm sure) are VERY into prepping. They believe that pretty soon, the governments are going to fall, anarchy will start, cities will blow up/get destroyed, there'll be one or more wars on... all stuff pointing to the end times. It's all about the fear/scare tactics for them. They want to survive because they want to be around to see Jesus come back. They want to survive because they want to win out over "the enemy" and essentially prove how smart and daring they were, and therefore how faithful.

So, outside of this religious mentality (which I find off-putting at best, and scary at worst) I don't know how non-religious folks see the whole survivalism movement.

My questions/perspectives aside.. I know first aid, I know how to identify edible plants/flowers, I know how to cook over a fire, how to purify water, and I know how to look after a bunch of kids at once. All that ought to be helpful somewhere. I know one thing for sure, I'd get myself into some kind of community somewhere, I wouldn't WANT to hack it on my own. I'd want to share resources, ideas, support etc with other people.

[The Magic Pudding]

Thanks the reply Gawen, your view of the economy seems a bit pessimistic but I suppose it could get worse.  Good luck with it anyway.

[Gawen]

If I can ask... what is it you guys are preparing for? A major war? A nuclear war/disaster? Major flood? Localized storms/fighting? Zombie attack?

My prepping is much more mundane. As I said above, my first priority is to see that I have enough food and medicine to last a very long time in case I or my wife lose our jobs...for whatever reason. My second priority is too see us through any local disaster that might befall us, such as a tornado....and that includes terroristic type attacks. The Federal, state and local governments all have preparations in case of disasters of this sort. This includes FEMA, Homeland Security, State organizations and the city I work for. Man-made and regional type disasters (such as hurricanes and biological attacks) figure prominently in the plans. This is one time I totally agree with the Governments and wish to do the same. Why not? Why should I be dependent on any government when I can become self reliant?

See, I'm asking because I have enough experience with survivalists and preppers, but it was an experience unfortunately tainted by a very strong religious perspective -- some hardcore traditional Catholics (among other groups, I'm sure) are VERY into prepping.

I spoke of this briefly in a post above. Some of the most whacked out preppers are VERY religious. Others are VERY political and overwhelmingly conservative, blaming the current administration for every ill conceivable. Others still mix and match politics with religion. And then you have the plain 'ol psych cases. Everyone else seems to fall into other categories. Now, to expand on your first question, as I said in my post preceding this one (I think)...I think the economy has failed and will continue to fail. In that respect, I prep because not only will I end up losing my job due to a worldwide economic breakdown, it will end up a disaster of epic proportions. And, WHEN this comes about, well, I'm glad I found others that feel the same way and willing to not become a burden and a parasite to the remaining government entities as they try to keep everything under control. On top of that, FEMA and Homeland Sec is not going to make me relocate to some refugee center or make me go to work here in the US or elsewhere with or without pay.
Read Presidential Policy Directive (PPD) 8
It's scary.

So, outside of this religious mentality (which I find off-putting at best, and scary at worst) I don't know how non-religious folks see the whole survivalism movement.

I wouldn't know the ins and outs of every preppers mentality. Suffice it to say that there are a buttload of preppers in a multitude of books, blogs and discussion boards and none of them bring up religion.

My questions/perspectives aside.. I know first aid, I know how to identify edible plants/flowers, I know how to cook over a fire, how to purify water, and I know how to look after a bunch of kids at once. All that ought to be helpful somewhere. I know one thing for sure, I'd get myself into some kind of community somewhere, I wouldn't WANT to hack it on my own. I'd want to share resources, ideas, support etc with other people.

These are skills that I would include in my group! So if you every relocate to the D/FW area of Texas, you're in!
The only problems are...

What is it you would be willing to survive?
How much time, money and commitment are you willing to spend to get through a local or regional disaster AND if the SHTF on a national/worldwide case?
Finding a group that's not chock full o' nuts, because you can't make it alone.

If you wish to prep even for enough food and water for a couple weeks...'now' is always the time.

[Gawen]

Thanks the reply Gawen, your view of the economy seems a bit pessimistic but I suppose it could get worse.

Well, MP, my view reflects the world economy. We have economists on one side yelling "AUSTERITY!" and those on the other side yelling "STIMULUS!". The sad part is neither work. So then we have a few economists saying the only way out is to cut everything and that it'll hurt people. No politician is willing to intentionally hurt their constituents.

Honestly, the only way I see the economy going is down. How long it'll take, I haven't a clue. But...if you take 2 or more of the worlds largest economic bases and they fail, watch the domino effect as the others either try to help the fallen or just back away. Either way it's gonna hurt. Add into that or even by itself a major war in the Middle east or the Korea's, watch stock tumble.

I don't want a 401k. I've seen too many people lose great amounts of their "retirement funds" when the markets fall. Nope, give me food and water now, both of which will go up in price in years to come.

[Gawen]

For years, financial counselors/advisers/economists have told people to have enough money put aside to pay all your bills/debts for 3 months in case of sickness, loss of job, layoffs, etc. I think it prudent to do the same with food, water and medicine. All I'm doing is extending that 3 month period to one year. Of course, there are other things to consider, but that's the jist of it.

Honestly, those few that have managed to keep reading this thread, I challenge you to go to your pantry, freezer and fridge and figure out how much food you have and how long it will feed you or your family.
Next, pretend the electricity goes out. If you don't have a natural gas stove, consider how will you cook the food.
Where do you get water if a terrorist injects typhoid into the water system?
What will you do if it happens in the dead of winter?
Do you have a place to go if life becomes potentially untenable or will be untenable for an unspecified amount of time?

I am all too aware that some of you will have virtually nothing to worry about when it comes to man made or natural short term disasters. I envy you. But I live on the outskirts of an area of 6 million people. The city I work for gets its water from another city that also distributes water to 26 other municipalities. Since 9/11, the Feds and the State have all become very aware of how extremely simple it is to totally muck up a water system. Emergency Management Protocols are over 90 frackin pages. And this includes any disaster short of total nuclear or total economic collapse. Total economic collapse can be covered for a time, but will eventually break down.

In the last paragraph I mentioned I was envious of some of you. But when the economy collapses, as I think it will, you'll be a lot hungrier than I. And if you know where I live, and manage to make it here....all you'll find is a house full of dust...*chucklin*

[Squid]

So at what odds do you guys rate the chance that you'll ever have to put your plans into action?
What are the most likely perceived threats?
Is it a fun thing to do, worth the expense even if the shit doesn't hit the fan in our time?

Well, I'm most concerned with loss of utilities, access to things like fuel, groceries and the like.  We had a hurricane come through here a few years ago and had no power for 4 days.  A lot of the grocery stores were out of potable water and the city water was risky and we were told to boil it.  That was just a Category 1. Katrina was on a B-line for the Texas coast but a large air mass had it turn north and it hit New Orleans instead.  Last summer we had wild fires all over the entire state due to extreme heat and a drought.  I even watched one being put out on my way to work one morning, a pretty large chunk of a field was charred black.  Tornados are a real threat along with thunderstorms that can and have produced hurricane force winds.  Aaaaand now we're experience more seismic activity in this area - some people attribute it to the frac drilling.  Flooding is a very real threat here as well.  Every few years we have a pretty bad one and the last catastrophic one was in 1998 when half of my hometown was under water.  I was on the other side of the planet at the time deployed to the Gulf.

For me also a lot of the skills involved are something I am interested in learning - gardening, survival and outdoors skills, alternative energy and the like.  Some other things usually involved with prepping like firearms and combatives I've been interested in for a long while - firearms every since I was in the military (although I was only issued a weapon while I was temporarily assigned to the Master At Arms - Remington 870 Marine Mag to be exact and a Beretta M9) and I've studied martial arts since I was in high school and have more recently gotten into reality based combatives.  I've also been big on camping for a long time so I've always been interested in wilderness skills.

Don't get me wrong, as cool as a zombie apocalypse would be, it's not the top of the list of my emergency concerns.

[Gawen]

So at what odds do you guys rate the chance that you'll ever have to put your plans into action?
What are the most likely perceived threats?
Is it a fun thing to do, worth the expense even if the shit doesn't hit the fan in our time?

Well, I'm most concerned with loss of utilities, access to things like fuel, groceries and the like.  We had a hurricane come through here a few years ago and had no power for 4 days.  A lot of the grocery stores were out of potable water and the city water was risky and we were told to boil it.  That was just a Category 1. Katrina was on a B-line for the Texas coast but a large air mass had it turn north and it hit New Orleans instead.  Last summer we had wild fires all over the entire state due to extreme heat and a drought.  I even watched one being put out on my way to work one morning, a pretty large chunk of a field was charred black.  Tornados are a real threat along with thunderstorms that can and have produced hurricane force winds.  Aaaaand now we're experience more seismic activity in this area - some people attribute it to the frac drilling.  Flooding is a very real threat here as well.  Every few years we have a pretty bad one and the last catastrophic one was in 1998 when half of my hometown was under water.  I was on the other side of the planet at the time deployed to the Gulf.

For me also a lot of the skills involved are something I am interested in learning - gardening, survival and outdoors skills, alternative energy and the like.  Some other things usually involved with prepping like firearms and combatives I've been interested in for a long while - firearms every since I was in the military (although I was only issued a weapon while I was temporarily assigned to the Master At Arms - Remington 870 Marine Mag to be exact and a Beretta M9) and I've studied martial arts since I was in high school and have more recently gotten into reality based combatives.  I've also been big on camping for a long time so I've always been interested in wilderness skills.

Don't get me wrong, as cool as a zombie apocalypse would be, it's not the top of the list of my emergency concerns.

What he said...all of it^

C'mon up to D/FW, Squid. We'll help ya get sorted out...*winkin' with a grin*