Howdy

[RatherBePerfin]

Hmm, my background.....where to start is tough. I've got a lot I'd like to say, but don't feel like spending all day typing. I'll try to sum things up best I can in chronological order.

-Born in Saskatchewan in 1985 and baptised roman catholic. Not sure why, but during my young years my parents were attending an anglican church. I remember the day they stopped going, I was somewhere between 4 and 5 years old. Beatiful Sunday morning in early summer and I was all dressed up and ready to go to church. I was out on the back deck and could hear the church bells going and went inside to ask my parents why they weren't ready to go. They told me we weren't going to church that day. I assume that was probably in the early stages of their ensuing divorce.

-I was enrolled in a roman catholic school, but did not initially take part in any of their sacraments. It wasn't until I was about 11 or 12 years old that my mothers side of the family pressured her into having my siblings and I catch up on any sacraments we had missed (to my knowledge it was my grandmother who started it all). The real catch here is it wasn't much more than 1 year prior that I started to question the whole concept of religion and creationism. One of my friends told me that is called "being an atheist". He informed me that he was also an atheist.

-Through the process of catching up I often begged to not go through with it. My mom would not give in, because it would obviously create issues with my grandmother. My dad sided with me but elected not to do anything. I guess divorce has enough issues and there is only so much rocking the boat that one wants to go through. Really through all this I felt stupid, being somewhere I didn't want to be, claiming faith in something I thought was a load of crap. But naturally the fear factor kept me in line, because I knew if I were to speak out in church I would be ridiculed and looked down upon.

-The process of going through all the sacraments created a deep resentment for the church. I couldn't help but think how sneaky it was of them to "recruit" children into their religion at an age young enough that they could brainwash them before they were old enough to understand the world and make an educated decision for themself. As such, I decided after my confirmation that I would not step foot in a church for anything other than marriages or funerals.

-There was a lapse of about 8 years where religion was the furthest thing from my mind. That is, until about 2 years ago when I got into a different line of work. When I was initially hired there was one guy there with strong religious beliefs and a few others who had no problem mocking atheists but clearly did not live their life according to the bible (from what I learned of it in school).  Shortly after my hiring, two others of strong religious belief were hired. One was actually a pastor of 10 year who has since left us to continue working with the church again. From time to time religious debates would come up. Initially I was quiet, simply because I don't like getting into an argument without knowing facts. Prior to this I didn't look into much scientific information on the subject, creationism simply didn't make sense to me and I had no reason to use science to back myself. But with the help of the internet (sites like this) I have since found more than enough information to allow me to get involved in the discussions. I previously belonged to a similar forum that appears to have shut down, and after some searching came across a few different sites to replace it, but after some browsing decided to join this one.

So some more about me. I'm 23, male. Graduated highschool on the honor roll but elected to avoid post secondary education. I took an entry level job in the automotive industry. Bought my own house at 19. Life was ok, but my job appeared to be a dead end and there were a lot of things I wanted to do with my life, and they all required a lot more money than I was making. With 4 years under my belt I was still only making $11/hour. I decided I was being severly underpaid for the work I was doing. Luckily around the same time my cousin offered me a job in the oil and gas industry. It was a tough decision to make, as I would be working away from home, and not seeing my friends often. I considered it for about a week and decided that it was time to take a bit of a chance with my life. Essentially I was looking to reach some financial goals before I move back home, and mapped out a 5 year plan. Actually with the way the economy is going I may be able to move home at some point in the near future and find a job with a similar income (which was almost impossible 2 years ago). Work is #1 in my life right now, but beyond that I really enjoy golfing and working out as a stress relief. I also have interests in motocross, hot rods, and hands on work like carpentry, welding, and fiberglass work. I should also mention that I am friends with all of my co-workers that have strong religious beliefs. The pastor is actually my golfing buddy, and we get along great.

Anyway, you probably won't see me posting much. I'll offer my opinion from time to time, maybe ask the odd question, but for the most part I am here to absorb whatever knowledge I can.

[Evolved]

Welcome, RatherBe!  I'm a newbie too.  It's always great to meet someone with a brain.

I couldn't help but think how sneaky it was of them to "recruit" children into their religion at an age young enough that they could brainwash them before they were old enough to understand the world and make an educated decision for themself

You hit the nail on the head with this one.  That's how they do it.  They tried to do it to me, too.

Initially I was quiet, simply because I don't like getting into an argument without knowing facts. Prior to this I didn't look into much scientific information on the subject, creationism simply didn't make sense to me and I had no reason to use science to back myself. But with the help of the internet (sites like this) I have since found more than enough information to allow me to get involved in the discussions.

If the need comes up again, you know where to get answers.  These folks are great at supplying ammo for discussions, even with those theists who use poorly interpreted science in a weak attempt to hang on to any thread of their belief.

[SteveS]

Hey there RatherBePerfin - thanks for the great intro and welcome to the board!

[McQ]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for that introduction. Fellow former catholic here.

[RatherBePerfin]

Thanks for the welcomes.

Evolved, I've been reading up on different things whenever I get bored and I have found a lot of interesting facts that will fit into our discussions nicely. The discussions have been few and far between lately. Our shop has thinned out a bit which means those of us left are basically taking on more work and do not have enough downtime for the subject to come up. But it feels nice finally knowing enough to throw a wrench into blasphemy when I hear it. I think the moment that really provoked my need to join a forum like this was when one of the guys started "schooling us" on carbon dating. He got into the whole bit about carbon dating being inaccurate beyond 5000 years, and as such claimed atheists do not scientifically have a leg to stand on. I knew that he was either selectively representing facts to best fit the argument, or somebody had told him that at some point in his life and it made enough sense that he just took it and ran with it. The part that I really don't get though, is he is probably one of the most intelligent guys in our shop. Blinded by faith maybe?

[rlrose328]

Welcome to the forum, my friend... nice to meet you!

[Evolved]

Thanks for the welcomes.

Evolved, I've been reading up on different things whenever I get bored and I have found a lot of interesting facts that will fit into our discussions nicely. The discussions have been few and far between lately. Our shop has thinned out a bit which means those of us left are basically taking on more work and do not have enough downtime for the subject to come up. But it feels nice finally knowing enough to throw a wrench into blasphemy when I hear it. I think the moment that really provoked my need to join a forum like this was when one of the guys started "schooling us" on carbon dating. He got into the whole bit about carbon dating being inaccurate beyond 5000 years, and as such claimed atheists do not scientifically have a leg to stand on. I knew that he was either selectively representing facts to best fit the argument, or somebody had told him that at some point in his life and it made enough sense that he just took it and ran with it. The part that I really don't get though, is he is probably one of the most intelligent guys in our shop. Blinded by faith maybe?

I hate to burst this guy's bubble (not really), but it sounds like he doesn't know squat about radiocarbon dating.  There are a few different forms (called isotopes) of carbon atoms on Earth; most of the carbon that you will find in the atmosphere and in plants and animals (including us) is either carbon-12 or carbon-13.  The numbers come from the total number of protons and neutrons the atom has.  However, there is a small percentage of carbon-14 around.  It just so happens that carbon-14 is radioactive, and radioactive atoms decay (by throwing off particles, or sometimes splitting) at a predictable rate.  Because the carbon-14 in our bodies (and in the  bodies of other life forms) decays, it has to be replaced constantly, and this is no problem as long as the life form is alive (we eat it in plants and animals).  However, once the organism dies, it no longer takes in carbon-14.  Since scientists know that there is a pretty constant ratio of carbon-12 to carbon-14 in the atmosphere (and in a body), they can compare the amount of carbon-12 to carbon-14 in a long-dead organism and see how this ratio has changed because of carbon-14's decay.  Carbon-14 loses half of its mass in about 5700 years (known as its half-life), so it is only useful in dating animals and plants that died up to about 60,000 years ago.  That right there refutes this guy's claim.  However, add to it the fact the science now uses other types of radioactive elements for dating, such as potassium-40 (half life of around 1.3 billion years) or rubidium-87 (half life of 49 billion years), that makes this pretty much a slam dunk.  We have the ability now to date way far back.

And this just applies to Earth.  We also know the age of the universe by looking at stars.  But we can talk about that another time if you want.

Here's some more info on carbon dating:  http://www.howstuffworks.com/carbon-14.htm