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Re: Is matter eternal?

Started by Asmodean, April 21, 2012, 09:45:04 AM

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Asherah

March 21, 2012, 02:45:59 AM
This might be a dumb question, so sorry if that is the case. But, since there is no eternal being who always is and always was that created everything, then is matter eternal? I'm sure that's an unanswerable question. But, just curious if there are any thoughts out there or maybe new scientific info on the topic. And, also, what is beyond our universe? If there are other universes, then what is in between our universe and the other universes and then what's beyond that? Does it ever end? Again, I'm sure these are unanswerable questions, but I just thought maybe there was someone out there who had some ideas. It's just mind boggling to think about what's beyond all this and then what's beyond all that, ad infinitum.
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Asmodean

#1
March 21, 2012, 05:49:24 AM Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 05:56:24 AM by Asmodean
No, matter is not eternal.

The (what I know to be) strongest standing theory suggests that matter is a state of energy, thus, by inducing that state in energy, matter can be created and by moving from that state, it can be destroyed.

For destruction of matter, look up antimatter.

I don't have the sufficient time to properly reply about multiverses, strings and membranes, but a theory suggests that the "cold spot" in cosmic background radiation map and the galactic movement mean that there is another universe outside of this one that, while unseen and ungettable to, can still be observed by its effects on this one.

It's not a very strong theory, but it's still on the books as far as I know.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Sweetdeath

#2
March 21, 2012, 06:24:23 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 21, 2012, 05:49:24 AM
No, matter is not eternal.

The (what I know to be) strongest standing theory suggests that matter is a state of energy, thus, by inducing that state in energy, matter can be created and by moving from that state, it can be destroyed.

For destruction of matter, look up antimatter.

I don't have the sufficient time to properly reply about multiverses, strings and membranes, but a theory suggests that the "cold spot" in cosmic background radiation map and the galactic movement mean that there is another universe outside of this one that, while unseen and ungettable to, can still be observed by its effects on this one.

It's not a very strong theory, but it's still on the books as far as I know.
This sounds so similar to like a plot in the DC Comics: infinite crisis or crisis on infinite earths.
it sounds insanely interesting, Asmo. I love science :)
Now i'm off to research anti matter.
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Tank

#3
March 21, 2012, 08:09:11 AM
I see you're starting with the easy questions!  ;D

Quote from: Asherah on March 21, 2012, 02:45:59 AM
This might be a dumb question, so sorry if that is the case. But, since there is no eternal being who always is and always was that created everything, then is matter eternal? I'm sure that's an unanswerable question. But, just curious if there are any thoughts out there or maybe new scientific info on the topic.

Protons and electrons are the basic building blocks of matter.

QuoteThe spontaneous decay of free protons has never been observed, and the proton is therefore considered a stable particle. However, some grand unified theories of particle physics predict that proton decay should take place with lifetimes of the order of 10^36 yr, and experimental searches have established lower bounds on the mean lifetime of the proton for various assumed decay products.

So the basic building block of matter has never been observed to decay.

Quote from: Asherah on March 21, 2012, 02:45:59 AMAnd, also, what is beyond our universe? If there are other universes, then what is in between our universe and the other universes and then what's beyond that? Does it ever end? Again, I'm sure these are unanswerable questions, but I just thought maybe there was someone out there who had some ideas. It's just mind boggling to think about what's beyond all this and then what's beyond all that, ad infinitum.
Rather out of my league here. As far as I am aware the existence of parallel universes is still theoretical and could well remain so as the nature of alternative universes is (at this time) untestable.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Stevil

#4
March 21, 2012, 08:13:52 AM
Matter and energy are the same thing, just different forms.
When matter is transformed e.g. fusion or fission then some energy is expelled.

Energy might be eternal, but what is important to know is that all the energy in our universe adds up to 0.
In terms of conservation of energy principle it means it will always add up to 0, no matter what you do.

Asherah

#5
March 21, 2012, 12:19:57 PM
Quote from: Stevil on March 21, 2012, 08:13:52 AM
Matter and energy are the same thing, just different forms.
When matter is transformed e.g. fusion or fission then some energy is expelled.

Energy might be eternal, but what is important to know is that all the energy in our universe adds up to 0.
In terms of conservation of energy principle it means it will always add up to 0, no matter what you do.

However, the Law of Conservation of Energy pertains to a closed system. Who knows if our universe is a closed system? We could be getting energy from an outside source.
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

Crow

#6
March 21, 2012, 01:54:13 PM
No.

E=MC² is the formula used to predict the amount of energy that is released from the complete annihilation of matter.
Retired member.

Stevil

#7
March 21, 2012, 07:13:35 PM
Quote from: Crow on March 21, 2012, 01:54:13 PM
No.

E=MC² is the formula used to predict the amount of energy that is released from the complete annihilation of matter.
And this formula states that matter and energy are transferable.

Crow

#8
March 21, 2012, 07:57:42 PM
Quote from: Stevil on March 21, 2012, 07:13:35 PM
Quote from: Crow on March 21, 2012, 01:54:13 PM
No.

E=MC² is the formula used to predict the amount of energy that is released from the complete annihilation of matter.
And this formula states that matter and energy are transferable.

Transferable yes but not eternal.
Retired member.

Tank

#9
March 21, 2012, 08:01:09 PM
Quote from: Stevil on March 21, 2012, 07:13:35 PM
Quote from: Crow on March 21, 2012, 01:54:13 PM
No.

E=MC² is the formula used to predict the amount of energy that is released from the complete annihilation of matter.
And this formula states that matter and energy are transferable.
How does energy get back into matter?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asmodean

#10
March 21, 2012, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 21, 2012, 08:01:09 PM
How does energy get back into matter?
I don't think the hows of it are even remotely understood at this point, but I have come across this lately (Well, close to - my article was on paper, but this is the same thing)
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tank

#11
March 21, 2012, 08:44:41 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 21, 2012, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 21, 2012, 08:01:09 PM
How does energy get back into matter?
I don't think the hows of it are even remotely understood at this point, but I have come across this lately (Well, close to - my article was on paper, but this is the same thing)
Most interesting.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asherah

#12
March 22, 2012, 01:00:22 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on March 21, 2012, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 21, 2012, 08:01:09 PM
How does energy get back into matter?
I don't think the hows of it are even remotely understood at this point, but I have come across this lately (Well, close to - my article was on paper, but this is the same thing)

Wow. So cool!
As a scientist, I am hostile to fundamentalist religion because it actively debauches the scientific enterprise. It teaches us not to change our minds, and not to want to know exciting things that are available to be known. It subverts science and saps the intellect. - Dawkins

pytheas

#13
March 23, 2012, 06:22:04 PM
The question hence is =Is the 0 eternal?

the virtual particles bouncing into real particles from vacuum space! well, we are certainly not able to actually say if matter/energy is eternal or not.

it seems as if it is,  to me though..
"Not what we have But what we enjoy, constitutes our abundance."
"Freedom is the greatest fruit of self-sufficiency"
"Nothing is enough for the man to whom enough is too little."
by EPICURUS 4th century BCE

ThinkAnarchy

#14
March 23, 2012, 07:21:12 PM
That article is much more interesting after googling what virtual particles are.
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.
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