Suicide - is it an act of selfishness?

[Reasoner]

Sophie;
I have to admit that I struggled not to succumb to my own rage and apply obscene names, etc. on reading the above quote from the self-righteous denier of reality who wrote that post.

Anyone who claims they have never been in severe mental/emotional pain immediately rings certain alarms for me. They have either been so highly traumatized they don't dare take even a superficial look at their own emotional past or there is something in their brain/neuro configuration that makes them truly oblivious. Regardless of the cause, they are incapable of extending real help or understanding on this or any other subject.

Your point about the fact that desperation overtakes people sometimes and makes the idea of staying alive too awful to face is an important one. It was that desperation I was referring to when I mentioned the irrational place that emotional torment can take a person. In my estimation, Sophie, your understanding of the human condition at this point trumps anything the most sanctimonius of "christians" could possibly muster.

[Mister Joy]

]I looked at that Christian forum and wanted to quote one of the worst:
"No, DKC I disaggree. Mental torment is horrible (not that I have suffered it personally,) but Jesus Christ heals so many people mentally and emotionally it's amazing..." Oh really? The "so many people" are undoubtedly members of his church. I've met hundreds of people who prayed fervently to Jesus to deliver them from their mental illness. I did the same, myself, for at least ten years. The only help came through medications and professional therapy. I used to rationalize the lack of response to my prayers with "God works through the people in our lives..." Ugh. The mental game of Twister which people play to justify God being merciful and loving is both complex and painful.

I made the key point bold in the above quotation. One who has never experienced mental torment is an idiot to think they can even attempt to explain how selfish and hell-deserving suicide is. I don't call people names on principle, but this is a subject I'm obviously passionate about. I shared about some of my personal stuff on another thread, so I won't elaborate much more. Let me just make it clear to anyone interested: someone who is seriously suicidal (not the semi-serious thoughts) has sunk so far into despair that they aren't capable of much clear thought of others. Deeper than, "I just can't go on like this," true suicidal ideation is more along the lines of needing to be released from life. In such an ill mind, quitting life is the only available option.

Exactly what I was trying to clarify to them, more or less. It's not wise to presume on something like that by declaring it 'selfish' & highlights a lack of understanding, if anything. Perhaps you should join in the discussion over there as well and shed some light on the issue. I've had a good go but evidently you can bring more knowledge & experience to it than I can. Bear in mind though, most of the folk on that forum are fairly nice, well meaning and reasonable as far as Christians go, though some of them are a little uneducated. I think attitudes like these stem, in their case, more from naivety and having been mislead (they're sock-puppets) than insensitivity. It's necessary to take a correctional but gentle tone with them, I find.

[jaymayo]

[quote="pjkeeley] I do agree with the thrust of your post jaymayo but I have a problem with the idea of judging other people's circumstances and deciding what is 'bearable' or not. The notion that we should even required to live simply because life is bearable is also one that doesn't sit well with me. I want to live a life that I can fully enjoy, not just one that is bearable.[/quote]

   Oops, sorry to use the word bearable. I stand corrected. Yes, life should be enjoyed since it's the only one we have and there is no afterlife whatsoever.

If I should reiterate what I've said in other posts, the notion of afterlife is somehow boring and redundant; Heaven will be so perfect that everyone will be dead inside since life is all about trials and tribulations. Hell is about torture and destruction that your soul would burn until it would look like that stuff you left last night on the stove. Reincarnation is a paradox in itself since you will live life again but it won't be yours and you won't have and cognition of who you are before...

...other than that, enjoy life to the fullest mates and the idea of suicide is a statement of non-enjoyment of life. Fight hard and fight well.

(if I sound too preachy, like an evangelist on sunday morning cable TV, please tell me so and I'd be happy to shut up for a while... cheers!)

[Valerie]

After suffering the loss of my 36 year old mother to suicide when I was 15 and then my 33 year old brother's suicide when I was 35, I have to say that I have a personal albeit reluctant interest in suicide and it's cause and effect.  My atheist roots go back to the first one when I was told by a catholic priest that my mother was in hell.  I didn't believe that at all.  My mother never physically hurt anyone but herself and she did in fact love me and my two brothers and I know that her intension was not to inflict misery on us.  I can't go into a lengthy discussion on this because my computer tends to freeze up on me right in the middle of my diatribe (very frustrating!) but, in my case I think that their suicides were more of an impulsive act with little thought to consequence or finality.  I think it's also deeply connected to a life of very low self esteem.  In my brother's case, it also had something to do with a parent paving the way by condoning it.  As  far as 911, saying that anyone who jumped committed suicide is ridiculous. These poor people didn't want to die and they knew that they were going to be murdered and chose to have one last act of will or be burned to death.  That isn't suicide.  And those families should be ashamed for thinking that it was.  There is so much unnecessary stigma........

[SteveS]

Good and interesting commentary, Valerie.  This is all tough stuff.

[ILOVEJESUS]

it can certainly be classed as selfish on those left behind. it is , or should be up to us though what we do with our lives at the end of the day. however seeing as this is all you have folks, try to keep in the game long enough to let chance deal you some sort of quality