Atheists got it wrong?

[keithpenrod]

5 Things atheists have wrong about religion:

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"
2. Atheists are Anti-Religious
3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior
4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God
5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

http://www.alternet.org/belief/151396/5_things_atheists_have_wrong_about_religion/?page=1

Any thoughts?

[xSilverPhinx]

I think that number 2 is actually a common misconception that theists have about atheists, and not atheists about religion. As for the others...yeah, I guess they're correct, in that they're misconceptions. 

[Sweetdeath]

What exactly is wrong with number 1? XP

[keithpenrod]

What exactly is wrong with number 1? XP

I think that generalizations (eg, "all religions", "all atheists", etc) are usually just prejudice and are inaccurate.  So, I think it's unfair to say "all religions are equally crazy".  For example, Mormonism is rather crazy since it claims that Jews are the ancestors of the Native Americans.  And cults are really crazy because they make people kill themselves or do other really bizarre things.  Not all religions are that extreme.  The universalists, for example, are fairly mellow.  That they believe things that may not necessarily be reasonable might be true, but that they're as crazy as other religions?  I wouldn't go that far. 

[Crow]

Atheists have so many views it is impossible to agree or disagree with the article, the examples given are accurate for some but not all, those that do apply to these points won't see anything wrong especially if they have been directly persecuted or come from a background where religion around them is particularly nutty. I can see why the journalist has written such an article as it is addressing the issues that he/she sees prevalent when conversing with atheists and especially relate to him/her which is made more apparent after reading their other article on the website titled "Should I Quit My Religion? Some Questions for the New Atheists".

My own opinion on the points are: 1) I have never thought this, I have known a large variety of different theists some are a bit stricter than others but so far I have never conversed with a real life fundamentalist and the only experience I have had with the crazies are online, via TV and reading varying history books. From what I have observed of the "crazies" usually tend to come from three specific religions and those that are considered cults (but not much difference to me). 2) I don't like certain religions but I don't have the "get rid" mentality, though they do make good humor so may laugh at them at points but that doesn't make me anti-religious. There are some religions that I do like a lot such as Taoism yet there is also a branch and some byproducts of that religion I do not like. 3) Religion can cause bad behavior or should I say negative behavior but not all do, it comes down to the same issues in point one some are worse than others. 4) I agree with Christopher Hitchens quote on this one "to be religious is to be a theist". 5) Though I disagree that liberal and moderate religions justify extremism I do however think it can be an enabler of extremism. Though points one and three are relevant to what extremism within a religion constitutes, religions that have a cookie cutter mold of what humanity should be will always result in oppression and violence towards others, however religions that accept and embrace the diversity of humanity and nature usually create harmless hermits.

[Squid]

5 Things atheists have wrong about religion:

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"

No.  There are some that are more crazy than others.  Some are on another plane of crazy, I'm looking at you Scientology.

2. Atheists are Anti-Religious

I and most atheists I know are not anti-religious.  We could care less what other people believe as long as they don't think we should have to believe the same thing they do.

3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior

Not necessarily.  It can and has been a catalyst and excuse for people to do horrible things but has also inspired the opposite in some folks.  However, the question really would be, would those behaviors still manifest themselves if religion were removed from the equation?

4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God

This is a bit more complicated in that so often I've heard people refer to atheism as a religion or evolution as a religion and so on.  This would be using a very broad and vague definition for the term.  A more specific definition is one which is utilized by anthropologists and it does state that a characteristic of religion is a belief in the supernatural.

5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

lol, wut?

http://www.alternet.org/belief/151396/5_things_atheists_have_wrong_about_religion/?page=1

I think the author of this list is a bit misguided or misinformed and probably thinks every hipster kid reading a Hitchens book at Starbucks is representative of all atheists....I think I just offended much of the populace of Austin...

[Sandra Craft]

5 Things atheists have wrong about religion:

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"
2. Atheists are Anti-Religious
3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior
4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God
5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

http://www.alternet.org/belief/151396/5_things_atheists_have_wrong_about_religion/?page=1

Any thoughts?

Well, others have dealt with the "all these or those people" problem so I'll pass that one over. 

1.  I'm half guilty of this.  While I don't consider all religions the same, I do consider them pretty much equally crazy tho by no means equally dangerous and some I consider completely harmless.

2.  I read the article hoping for clarification on this one, but as others have mentioned it seems more like a theist misconception about atheists than the other way around.

3.  Never thought this one, altho I do think religion's often used as a justification for bad behavior.

4.  Not always, but certainly more often than not.

5.  This one I've never gone along with.

[Tank]

I do have one question. What are your reasons/interests for creating the OP?

[Whitney]

5 Things atheists have wrong about religion:

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"
2. Atheists are Anti-Religious
3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior
4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God
5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

http://www.alternet.org/belief/151396/5_things_atheists_have_wrong_about_religion/?page=1

Any thoughts?

None of the above is a view that a person must have simply because they are atheist.

I don't promote any of the above as I'm not that simple minded.

[Davin]

5 Things atheists have wrong about religion:

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"
2. Atheists are Anti-Religious
3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior
4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God
5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

This looks more like misconceptions some theists have about the misconceptions atheists have. I've heard these many times in discussions with theists, including my own family, and usually starts with the signal, "Yeah, but don't atheists think that..." Yes, there are some atheists that have at least one of these misconceptions, but as far as my experience goes, not many do.

It also appears to be a list of how many of the theists I discuss things with, miscunstrue my points. So I don't agree that these are five misconceptions atheists have, for me, it would fit better under, "five common ways theists straw man my arguments."

[keithpenrod]

I do have one question. What are your reasons/interests for creating the OP?

Someone in a Facebook group I'm in posted this and said it was a "great article".  I said basically what a lot of people here have said--that some of these things are really misconceptions going the other way.  But I just wanted to see if other people here agreed with me.

[Tank]

I do have one question. What are your reasons/interests for creating the OP?

Someone in a Facebook group I'm in posted this and said it was a "great article".  I said basically what a lot of people here have said--that some of these things are really misconceptions going the other way.  But I just wanted to see if other people here agreed with me.

Understood.

5 Things atheists have wrong about religion:

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"
2. Atheists are Anti-Religious
3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior
4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God
5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

1. Most people I have come across on forums would mainly agree with this. The exception would possible be atheistic Buddism as it is quite possible to follow the ideals of Buddah without holding and superstitioys beliefs.
2. Some atheists classify themselves as anti-theists, but in my experience they are a small minority. Having said that I think the reaction of some theists towards atheists is creating more anti-theists and thus we have a feedback loop that is polarising the relationship of atheism.
3. Some religions do cause unacceptable behavior, from the minimal irritation of 'door knockers' to the examples on Islamist terrorists. But in general I don't think religion causes good or bad behaviour, I think it supports the innate behaviour of the individual concerned.
4. Again with the exception of Buddahism I would agree that all religions require a supernatural element. To my mind that's what makes a religion a religion.
5. No, I don't think so. Extremism is a state of mind that will express itself in a form supported be the culture the person lives in.

[McQ]

I agree with Davin on this. Summed up what I would have to say about it nicely.

[squidfetish]

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"

No, they're not all the same - some are more crazy than others (damn right about Scientology too, Squid, but that was largely Hubbard's money-making scam than anything)
Fundies tend to be crazier than the moderates.


2. Atheists are Anti-Religious

Nope. Some are, some aren't.  Atheism just means lack of belief in a deity.  As far as most atheists I know are concerned, if someone wants to believe the Earth is flat and the moon is made of dope then that's fine and dandy as long as they don't evangelize over it.


3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior

"Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. To make good people do bad things often takes religion."  Can't remember who said that though....


4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God

Theistic religion does.  Non-theistic religion (Buddhism?) doesn't.

5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

No, but the fundies appear to be more pious and dedicated than the moderates, so the moderates often tend to shove their heads in the sand and pretend the fundies don't exist for fear of being branded antireligious. 

[Crow]

(Buddhism?)

Yeah Buddhism in its very nature is atheistic, there are gods in certain strains of Buddhism but a belief in a god isn't a prerequisite for Buddhism. There are other religions that don't believe in a god such as the Samkhya and Mimamsa schools of Hinduism; Confucianism (humanist) and Taoism (focus on nature) though both started out as philosophies they are now considered to be religions and have multiple different forms, mostly without a god but similarly to Buddhism gods arise when the philosophy has merged with the folk religions; There is also Jainism that believe that every being - material or spiritual - is worthy of the same respect and do not worship anything. They are the ones I know of there may be more but I do not know of any others.