How to fix Broken Britain

[Too Few Lions]

There is nothing subjective about the climate data that I drew from. Everything is subjective about a descriptive dull, damp, chilly greyness - which yes we do get occasionally and which you would reasonably expect October/Nnovember time - we're not far from the Arctic you know!

No, it's the stereotype that it is always raining/cold/cloudy/damp that gets me. First of all it's not true because I've had sunburn to prove it, secondly what are we trying to achieve by pushing this miserable stereotype?

N&C where do you live? I'm imagining it's Norfolk from your username, if not it must be the South East. If so you should give it a go living somewhere else in the UK, you ain't gonna get sunburn anywhere other than the South East. Where I live is permanently cold, damp, wet and grey 12 months a year, year after year. It's depressing because the weather never lets up. 25 degrees is as hot as it ever gets, and we get one or two 'scorchers' of that temperature a year. A normal summer's day here is 18-19 degrees (hardly warm and certainly won't give you a suntan) and usually overcast or raining. Plus we get several 'summer' days of 13-14 degrees in July and August each year, hardly great weather!

[Norfolk And Chance]

I don't think that you can talk about a 'Southern England' climate. Are you talking about the South East?  I live in Bristol, and the climate here (and in all of South West England) is fucking awful, and very different from the climate in the South East, where I grew up. Bristol barely ever gets above 20 degrees, even in the summer (18-19 is pretty average), and is usually a good 5 degrees colder than London throughout the summer. It's also a hell of a lot wetter too, raining a good 150-200 days a year, so yes I feel I have the right to say it's a crap climate.

You might say it's a crap climate but in reality it is not. Our problem is we compare to our holiday destinations. To say that Bristol barely gets over 20 degrees is factually incorrect, because with the average July temperature being 20 degrees it must follow that it must reach 20 degrees or above at least half of the time.

I agree Bristol is wetter than the East, however when we talk about 150-200 days rain, we are talking about 150-200 "24 hour periods" where it "rains" - I'll define "rain" in a moment. It stands to reason that only half of the days have rain, with the rest being night.

Also, "days with rain" is not really defining what we would consider a "rainy day". Some "rainy days" have a measurement of 0.1mm which came from morning dew or a literal 10 second shower. Technically a rainy day but I wouldn't percieve it as so..

The South East is the only part of the UK, that has a remotely decent climate, but even there it's pretty awful.

The only problem with the British climate is it is unreliable. You cannot book a week holiday and guarantee 7 sunny days like if you went to Greece or something. I live in the North East and don't think it is too bad, it is relatively dry like the south east though a little cooler.

The climate in the rest of the country stinks, unless you're a slug! Hell I don't work in the UK tourist industry so I feel I don't have to polish that turd!

I disagree, though you know that already.

I know the awful climate affects my happiness (particularly in winter) and I suffer with SAD, and I know Scissorlegs is the same too.

I thought SAD was brought on by the very short days meaning little sunlight? That's more of a latitude problem than a climate one, imagine living in Lapland?

I've got to the point where I'm seriously considering emigrating to a country with a better climate, I've got friends that have done it and say it's the best move they ever made. I just have to try and persuade my girlfriend to give it a go!

It depends how you define "better", to most people that means hotter, sunnier and drier, but that brings it's own problems - more insects, more poisonous things, bigger more damaging storms when they happen. There are also many "worse" climates than Britain using the "hotter, sunnier, drier" definition.

To me it's not so much that our climate is "shit", it is just that our perception is "shit"

I've never been to NZ so can't comment on the comparison, but looking at stats the south island looks to have a better climate than 90% of the UK. Plus 75% of the population live on the north island (that you admit has a better climate than the UK).

Christchurch is by far the city on the south island and it gets 640mm of rain a year and around 2000+ hours of sunshine.

So it gets more rain, and slightly more sunshine than the south then. Not much in it. Like I said. It gets more rain than North East England too.

Funnily enough one of my best friends from Bristol spent a few years working out in Christchurch, and he says his quality of life dropped massively when he came back to the UK. Property and everything else is much cheaper out there, most people can afford boats so they all go out sailing all the time, and the climate's good enough to do lots of outdoor stuff.  None of that's really possible in 90% of the UK, unless you're a fan of being cold and wet!

Not going to argue the quality of life point but you're hardly likely to get cold and wet that much more in England than you would in Christchurch. There's a small difference but nothing major (eg even one of the wetter places in the UK like Bristol has 190mm more over a whole year than christchurch which is insignificant, but a lot of England is drier than Bristol anyway)

There's a good comparison of UK and NZ climates here, and there is a big difference;

http://www.emigratenz.org/NewZealandClimate.html

The trouble is they've made up the sunshine hours but anyway, nothing on that link goes against what I said. Auckland obviously is far better. Christchurch has similar and slightly warmer summers to London. With milder winters, which everyone knows. Dunedin has milder winters like the rest of New Zealand but poorer  cooler summers than London.

Yes it's better but not massively so, unless you go to the North Island. Christchurch is hardly Ibiza.

I long for the day when I can smile and not moan about the weather, but it ain't gonna be in the UK!

So were you not smiling and not moaning in the late September/early October heatwave? I was loving it.

[Norfolk And Chance]

N&C where do you live? I'm imagining it's Norfolk from your username

My username is not a clue to my location, I'm in northern England. My user name is nothing more than a play on words - say "Norfolk and Chance" quickly. 

if not it must be the South East. If so you should give it a go living somewhere else in the UK, you ain't gonna get sunburn anywhere other than the South East.

Oh really? That's just blatant untruth but never mind.

Where I live is permanently cold, damp, wet and grey 12 months a year, year after year.

That's just your perception. By the way I'm typing this message and the autumn sunshine is coming through the window into the corner of my eye and annoying me.

25 degrees is as hot as it ever gets, and we get one or two 'scorchers' of that temperature a year.

That would be true for my location, though even up here we get the very odd 28 (once or twice a year, at a major push 30 (once a decade  ).

A normal summer's day here is 18-19 degrees (hardly warm and certainly won't give you a suntan)

Air temperature is irrelevant to suntanning anyway, the UV strength is the be all and end all. Even on a 18-20 degree day in summer if it is sunny, you will burn if you are out long enough.

By the way a normal summers day in Bristol is more like 21 degrees, you're just concentrating on the 18 degree days and ignoring the 23/24 degree days of which there statistically will be as many.

and usually overcast or raining.

Yes I accept we are more cloudy than most of Europe simply because of where we are situated , but usually cloudy as in more cloudy days than days where the sun shines? Come off it.

Plus we get several 'summer' days of 13-14 degrees in July and August each year, hardly great weather!

In my location, on average, in the last 10 years, July and August spawn one 13-14 degree day each. The Average July maximum is 20.2º, with 15 days above the 20.2º average (funnily enough). August is 19.1º. Yeah, if its HEAT you're looking for, not great. If it is reasonable temperatures then that's fine.

[Ildiko]

I've been to NZ at least half a dozen times - my sister lives in Auckland. She complains constantly about the rain. Auckland is wetter than Bristol - 1,240 mm.  

The only time I went to Dunedin I had to buy thermals in mid-summer.

Christchurch is probably nice if you like living in 1953.  

[Siz]

OK, so Britain doesn't need fixing and the weather's great!

Hurrah!

[Crow]

OK, so Britain doesn't need fixing and the weather's great!

Hurrah!

haha, the weathers still awful. There is nothing more British than complaining about the weather.

[Tank]

If we can learn anything from history its to do nothing, the more we try to sort things out the more we fuck them up. We usually have such a poor understanding of any issue that whatever we think is the solution actually has bugger all to do with the actual problem and we just get more stupid laws.

A few years ago an economist at the LSE decided to find out which forecasting algorithms worked best. As a control he used the forecast 'Next year will be like this year'. You've guessed it. Taken over any 25 year period the control equation worked best 

[Crow]

If we can learn anything from history its to do nothing, the more we try to sort things out the more we fuck them up. We usually have such a poor understanding of any issue that whatever we think is the solution actually has bugger all to do with the actual problem and we just get more stupid laws.

A few years ago an economist at the LSE decided to find out which forecasting algorithms worked best. As a control he used the forecast 'Next year will be like this year'. You've guessed it. Taken over any 25 year period the control equation worked best 

Interesting! I was reading this "'Responsible non-action' in the natural world: perspectives from the Neh-Yeh, Chuang-Tzu, and Tao-te Ching" and agreed with the argument being put forward.

[Ildiko]

OK, so Britain doesn't need fixing and the weather's great!
Hurrah!

No!!! We are still allowed to moan about it. I've been known to moan about the weather in countries I've never visited. I'm British, ffs, and that's what we do! 

[Siz]

OK, so Britain doesn't need fixing and the weather's great!
Hurrah!

No!!! We are still allowed to moan about it. I've been known to moan about the weather in countries I've never visited. I'm British, ffs, and that's what we do! 

I was being facetious - I agree with you. In fact I'm thinking of starting a cathartic misery thread, where we can moan ourselves out... if that's possible. If I get three commited moaners, I'll give it a shot. Who's in?

[Too Few Lions]

You might say it's a crap climate but in reality it is not. Our problem is we compare to our holiday destinations. To say that Bristol barely gets over 20 degrees is factually incorrect, because with the average July temperature being 20 degrees it must follow that it must reach 20 degrees or above at least half of the time.

It's all personal I guess, I like warmth and sunshine and I'm not a big fan of rain. Therefore for me, where I live has a crap climate. I'm willing to accept some people might like cold wet weather, and some of the country has a better climate than here. My ideal kind of weather is maybe 22-28 degrees and sunny, Bristol has very few days that get that warm in a year. How terribly British to be debating the weather on an atheist forum! By the way do you work for UK tourism, or in the tourism sector?  And living here, I can promise you that I said isn't all that incorrect (maybe just a little overexagerated  ), July had three or four days in the mid twenties, and two days with ten hours or more sunshine. Well throw in five days of 19 degrees for each one of the above. And July was the only month with an average maximum temperature above 20 degrees, and that is only one month out of twelve. Plus it had a wopping 117 hours of sunshine over the whole month. That averages out at under four hours of sunshine a day, which isn't all that great for the supposed height of summer.

I thought SAD was brought on by the very short days meaning little sunlight? That's more of a latitude problem than a climate one, imagine living in Lapland?

it's generally a winter thing, although that is at least 5 months of the year in the UK. But it's lack of light, I remember having the lightbox out in July in 2009, when it rained and was overcast pretty much every day for five weeks. It was the wettest July in Bristol since records began in the 19th century.

It depends how you define "better", to most people that means hotter, sunnier and drier, but that brings it's own problems - more insects, more poisonous things, bigger more damaging storms when they happen. There are also many "worse" climates than Britain using the "hotter, sunnier, drier" definition.
To me it's not so much that our climate is "shit", it is just that our perception is "shit"

Fair enough, it's just personal choice as to which climate we prefer, but for me it's in the mid twenties and with plenty of sunshine. I'd like 200+ days a year like that, I reckon I get just a handful each and every year. For the kind of outdoor lifestyle I'd like to lead, where I live does have a shit climate!

The trouble is they've made up the sunshine hours but anyway, nothing on that link goes against what I said. Auckland obviously is far better. Christchurch has similar and slightly warmer summers to London. With milder winters, which everyone knows.

I'm not sure they did, looking at the met office Bristol gets 1500 hours on sunshine a year, and Christchurch gets 2050.

So were you not smiling and not moaning in the late September/early October heatwave? I was loving it.

I missed it because was on holiday in Lanzarote (sod's law!) but it was 28 every day out there  , so I've got no complaints

[Ildiko]

In fact I'm thinking of starting a cathartic misery thread, where we can moan ourselves out... if that's possible. If I get three commited moaners, I'll give it a shot. Who's in?

I'm in, provided it's called The Cathartic Misery Thread, which is enough in itself to cheer me up.  Or is that self-defeating?