How to fix Broken Britain

[Siz]

So, here I am in a Britain crumbling with the cancer of unchecked multiculturalism and rising youth disaffection. I think it was the Conservatives that coined the provocative phrase 'broken Britain' - it is increasingly appropriate in describing the endemic social decay. Putting aside our imminent economic collapse for a while, I want to put the country's social health in order.

I don't have a problem with multiculturalism per se, but it does need to be dealt with in a more cohesive manner. I don't believe this to be an insurmountable problem... if we can change the way things are done.

My proposal would be to bring back National Service. This would have the twofold effect of both instilling some self respect (and some skills) in the erstwhile disaffected youth, and also adding that cohesive ingredient to bring disparate cultures together in comradeship. An even field of common experience.

My second, and arguably less controversial 'improvement' is a simple fix to a disrespectful society. Let's create a football (soccer) referee who is to be respected. No swearing, no petulance, no backchat. The despicable attitude, hitherto tolerated from the players, is the model for our youth. Change pitch culture and you change society. We all know the power of these role models. Let's use it to our advantage.

So, two straightforward changes I would make that will restore self respect and social harmony in this country. Simple, right?!

Too draconian for you? How would you sort out this mess?

[Crow]

I have to agree with Professor Stein Ringen's solution to the government. watch here.

Multiculturalism, easy just get everyone fucking. I grew up in a middle class multicultural area and everyone just mixed together and never saw a single issue to do with race and certainly never heard any racist remarks. My first encounter with racism was when I went to the States at 16 which really shocked me, and not until 20 in the UK but that was nothing in comparison. Is it even really a problem?

Not sure if I agree with National service though, I think maybe that is a bit late unless you are thinking Sparta style national service, but that's a bit harsh. I saw a brief bit on Channel 4 news on Tuesday (11/10) about a new type of schooling system that looked amazing (well I wish that's what school was back in my day) just can't remember what it was called, but if successful could work amazingly well, will keep a look out for it because it was brilliant.

[Too Few Lions]

I'd actually agree with some form of national service (particularly as I'm now too old to have it forced upon me  ) but maybe more community service where young people help keep the community clean and maybe help out in community projects and rebuild walls or derelict buildings etc. An army national service seems a waste of time to me.

I'd also prevent people from being able to own more than one house, and certainly prevent rich foreign investors or investment companies from buying property in the UK. I think some of the problems in this country stem from the fact that a lot of people are permanently priced out of the property market, and will never be homeowners and maybe as a result never feel a sense of pride in where they live. While the very rich can buy numerous properties and rent them to the rest of us to make them richer and us poorer...

But I also think to a degree there are always going to be problems. We have an awful climate that affects peoples' happiness and behaviour (well it does mine anyway), we're an overpopulated country, and personally I worry maybe there's a genetic issue that some people are inherently never going to be alll that civilized or domesticated, and sometimes they're the people who reproduce the most. But no government's ever going to address such a controversial issue as that!

hmmm, probably shouldn't have said something as controversial as that in the LBL  Maybe this should be in politics!

[Siz]

Yeah, I always believed the underlying difference between the Kiwis and us is simply the climate. While they're full of positivity and humour, we're morose and selfish (or is that just me?!). I definitely suffer from S.A.D - and in 2011 it's lasted all f**king year!

The benefit of National Service is not just the cohesion through common experience, it is the skills and self respect gained. And those are exactly what is currently lacking. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

Not sure I agree with the house-owning issue. We have a free market economy because this gives ultimate freedom to the man-in-the-street. There are seperate issues that create inequalities of opportunity for the individual. Unaffordable house prices are just a symptom of overpopulation. Supply and demand - the same as in the rental market.

And that leads nicely onto the 'reproduction' issue. I agree with TFL. Controversial as it may seem, we've gone WAY past political correctness. Let's just get real shall we?! Let's call the fat fat, the stupid stupid and the lazy lazy and maybe a bit of stigma on these issues may help deal with them head-on.

[Too Few Lions]

Yeah, I always believed the underlying difference between the Kiwis and us is simply the climate. While they're full of positivity and humour, we're morose and selfish (or is that just me?!). I definitely suffer from S.A.D - and in 2011 it's lasted all f**king year!

I suffer from that too, reckon probably quite a reasonable percentage of the population's moods are probably affected by the bad climate and they just don't realise it.  In my experience, the people I know who aren't bothered by the climate just spend the whole time drunk in pubs, so it doesn't really affect them! I've got a big lightbox that I use for six months a year to try and trick my brain into thinking it's not quite as dark, grey and miserable as it actually is. This year's not been great, but I remember 2009 was the worst, I had it the lightbox out in July and August. I remember it rained every day for five weeks that summer in Bristol, it was the wettest july since records began!   But I definitely agree that our climate makes people more morose and selfish, I always think people seem happier, friendlier and less money-grabbing whenever I go to Mediterranean countries, and given the lovely climate why wouldn't they be?

The benefit of National Service is not just the cohesion through common experience, it is the skills and self respect gained. And those are exactly what is currently lacking. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

very true, it'd be nice if the young folk could do things to help improve improve communities and the places people live too.

And that leads nicely onto the 'reproduction' issue. I agree with TFL. Controversial as it may seem, we've gone WAY past political correctness. Let's just get real shall we?! Let's call the fat fat, the stupid stupid and the lazy lazy and maybe a bit of stigma on these issues may help deal with them head-on.

I really do think this is an important issue, but no politician's ever going to broach it. Some people are just plain stupid, some plain lazy, and some very aggressive and anti-social. No matter how much money you throw at it, you're not going to be able to change that many of these people into highly intelligent, educated, responsible members of society. I do also worry that often these seem to be the people who reproduce the most, whereas intelligent, educated, responsible, hard-working folk seem to have less (or no) children.

I'd love to know if anyone's researched into this, it does seem to me that over the whole of society intelligence and education are possibly traits that are less likely to be passed on into the next generation, and are maybe evolutionarily disadvantageous in current western society (maybe all societies).

[Crow]

I'd actually agree with some form of national service (particularly as I'm now too old to have it forced upon me  ) but maybe more community service where young people help keep the community clean and maybe help out in community projects and rebuild walls or derelict buildings etc. An army national service seems a waste of time to me.

Totally agree with this maybe it could be incorporated into some sort of existing structure such as schools, maybe along the lines of community projects, each class would have to use the knowledge they have learned from other lessons such as maths and the technology subjects, incorporate the pitching process so they have to learn from a young age to sell an idea.  The younger classes could be responsible for keeping the area clean, with the older they get the more responsibility they get, with the later years actually working projects to implement new ideas into the community. From this they could learn the fundamental basis of many practical trades, see how maths is relevant to the real world, and how their actions can have an effect on the community around them. Also ensures they do not see themselves as cheap labor.

[Siz]

Multiculturalism, easy just get everyone fucking.

I like the sound of that. D'you think my wife would understand that it's in the interests of cultural harmony?

I really do think this is an important issue, but no politician's ever going to broach it. Some people are just plain stupid, some plain lazy, and some very aggressive and anti-social. No matter how much money you throw at it, you're not going to be able to change that many of these people into highly intelligent, educated, responsible members of society.

That's all true, but we can try to educate the children out of the rut. And in the meantime, put an end to the procreation of the terminally stupid. I will not be supporting ones right to have children while not financially independent. How can anyone argue against such limitations?

[Will]

Multiculturalism is just political-speak for not liking Muslim influence on European society. One of the fun things about culture is cultural evolution, and trying to stop Muslim cultural influence in Europe is an exercise in futility. It's going to happen, but there's going to be counter-influence of European secularism which can be seen in youth of Muslim descent. The parents may be fundamentalist, but youth culture combined with the amazing secularism of the internet means it's not going to last. Let it happen naturally. Allow freedom of religion, no burka bans or spire bans or any other knee-jerk reactions that are just going to continue the antagonistic back and fourth.

How do you fix Britain? A few things:

1) End the 'special relationship'. I'm an American so I know just how corrupting an influence our political system can be. While being so close to the United States has certain military and economic perks, ultimately the relationship is unhealthy for both of us, particularly you.

2) Simplify your tax system, but make it more progressive. The last time I was over there, the tax system was a complete nightmare. There were little taxes everywhere. I don't mind paying taxes, in fact I'm a fan of it, but making it complicated is cumbersome and also makes it seem like you're trying to hide something. Income tax, sales tax, estate tax, corporate tax. Bam. Make income, corporate and estate tax more progressive than they are now, and maybe throw in a marginal tax rate on the super-wealthy.

3) Fair trade over free trade. This is a problem with many Western countries: they create these wonderful economies and then freely trade with the third world where basic work is done for pennies (pents?) on the dollar (sterling?). It's stupid and it sabotages everything. Trade with countries that have similar labor laws and you'll be much, much happier. More tariffs. More import taxes. Not isolationism, of course, but economic pragmatism.

4) Free, quality school from toddlers to higher education. All of it. #2 will pay for it. California, my state, set out on a plan in the 1970s to create a public college system that was supposed to be one of the best in the world, and in the process created an amazing model for doing so. The result was schools like Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara, UC Irvine and other world-class schools that, even now with the corporate war on education, are an amazing deal for students. Create a highly educated working class and miracles will happen. Atheist miracles.

5) Time to finally bite the bullet and create a single, United Kingdom Constitution. You've been dancing around this for a long time, moving slowly away from monarchy and arriving at a parliamentary democratic republic. I can forgive you keeping the royal family around for fun, but a country like yours needs a singular legal document that sets fourth a unified vision of British principles. Other than the Second Amendment, which in hindsight is a massive mistake, you're welcome to copy off ours.

6) Dip Rupert Murdoch in oil and cover him in feathers. He lied to your political leaders, he's been bribing and hacking and slandering his way through your fair society for far too long. I believe in a free press, but I do not believe that covers what he's done. He's a cancer on your country and mine, and he's broken the law.

7) Bring back the Concord Jet! For a time, everyone was suddenly excited about air travel again. And a quicker trip across the Atlantic would be nice. No... it would be brilliant!

[Siz]

Multiculturalism is just political-speak for not liking Muslim influence on European society. One of the fun things about culture is cultural evolution, and trying to stop Muslim cultural influence in Europe is an exercise in futility. It's going to happen, but there's going to be counter-influence of European secularism which can be seen in youth of Muslim descent. The parents may be fundamentalist, but youth culture combined with the amazing secularism of the internet means it's not going to last. Let it happen naturally. Allow freedom of religion, no burka bans or spire bans or any other knee-jerk reactions that are just going to continue the antagonistic back and fourth.

How do you fix Britain? A few things:

1) End the 'special relationship'. I'm an American so I know just how corrupting an influence our political system can be. While being so close to the United States has certain military and economic perks, ultimately the relationship is unhealthy for both of us, particularly you.

2) Simplify your tax system, but make it more progressive. The last time I was over there, the tax system was a complete nightmare. There were little taxes everywhere. I don't mind paying taxes, in fact I'm a fan of it, but making it complicated is cumbersome and also makes it seem like you're trying to hide something. Income tax, sales tax, estate tax, corporate tax. Bam. Make income, corporate and estate tax more progressive than they are now, and maybe throw in a marginal tax rate on the super-wealthy.

3) Fair trade over free trade. This is a problem with many Western countries: they create these wonderful economies and then freely trade with the third world where basic work is done for pennies (pents?) on the dollar (sterling?). It's stupid and it sabotages everything. Trade with countries that have similar labor laws and you'll be much, much happier. More tariffs. More import taxes. Not isolationism, of course, but economic pragmatism.

4) Free, quality school from toddlers to higher education. All of it. #2 will pay for it. California, my state, set out on a plan in the 1970s to create a public college system that was supposed to be one of the best in the world, and in the process created an amazing model for doing so. The result was schools like Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara, UC Irvine and other world-class schools that, even now with the corporate war on education, are an amazing deal for students. Create a highly educated working class and miracles will happen. Atheist miracles.

5) Time to finally bite the bullet and create a single, United Kingdom Constitution. You've been dancing around this for a long time, moving slowly away from monarchy and arriving at a parliamentary democratic republic. I can forgive you keeping the royal family around for fun, but a country like yours needs a singular legal document that sets fourth a unified vision of British principles. Other than the Second Amendment, which in hindsight is a massive mistake, you're welcome to copy off ours.

6) Dip Rupert Murdoch in oil and cover him in feathers. He lied to your political leaders, he's been bribing and hacking and slandering his way through your fair society for far too long. I believe in a free press, but I do not believe that covers what he's done. He's a cancer on your country and mine, and he's broken the law.

7) Bring back the Concord Jet! For a time, everyone was suddenly excited about air travel again. And a quicker trip across the Atlantic would be nice. No... it would be brilliant!

Firstly, I resent your projection as to my inference of the meaning of multiculturalism. I am not afraid of Muslim influence (I love kebabs), I am afraid of having my own journey obstructed - as I am from any religious overbearance. I fully understand that positive multiculturalism is not about assimilation, but integration. I request the same observance from any individual - whomever they are or wherever they're from. I don't necessarily expect the same respect when travelling abroad, but not many other countries (if any) are so committed to multiculturalism as mine. The reason Muslims are so frequently brought into the argument is because of their cultural inflexibility and unwillingness to integrate.

Special relationship: agreed. This stretching across the 'pond' to find the hand of friendship is rediculous. We have powerful neighbours on our doorstep. Why don't we invite them around for tea more often?

Tax: I dont think we have the monopoly on overcomplicated tax!

Fair trade: If you say so...

Free School : YES, YES, YES! But it must come with a commitment to better education to be of any value.

Constitution: The US constitution was created because the melting-pot of post-colonialism required a consolidation of culture - arguably just like current day Britain. We can all see the aftermath if you get one small thing wrong - yes, the 2nd Ammendment. Nice idea, but I wouldn't trust anyone to get it right. We have a Nanny State as it is - let's not formalise control. We have a legal system for that. Introducing a constitution would do no more than tweaking a law or two could.
And as for the Royal Family, let them be - toffish muppets as they are. They give and they take, just like any corporation.

Rupert Murdoch: Yeah, what you said.

Concord: Looks pretty and was a TOTAL folly for the rich. Not to mention how spectacularly fuel-inefficient it was. Best left to nostalgia. The are better iconic anglo-french exports. Like ...er... bugandy beef stew...???


There are some helpful points here, but none that I see that would deliver the killer punch to social decrepitude. Softly-softly, gradual and incremental changes are just going to prolong the agony.

After the introduction of National Service (not necessarily military), the cheapest, most reasonable and profound change would come from a compulsion to respect football referees and compel socially acceptable pitch conduct. What hope have we got if our role models are acting like petulent children? I opine that the cost/benefit would be incalculably high.

[Norfolk And Chance]

How to fix Broken Britain?

Well for a start, if you are a Briton, stop moaning about the fecking climate. What is it about British people and constantly putting ourselves down? Putting the climate down is just stupid. Fact time - Britain has a temperate maritime climate and one which is rarely too hot, rarely too cold, rarely too wet and rarely too dry. Considering our northerly latitude we don't do so bad. I live in North East England at Latitude 55N and on October 1st was sat in 81º, in sunshine, having a BBQ (ok I admit it was freak weather). At a similar latitude in Siberia there will already be snow down.

No it isn't constantly sunny and hot in spring, summer and autumn in Britain like in Southern Europe. But we go on like we are jealous of it, that we have a bad deal? When you are having your fortnight on a beach (and i do it too) and soaking up 14 days of constant hot sunshine, yeah it feels great, but it is fantasy. It is not reality, and is not how life is for natives over there - they have to work in it. Hot sunny weather is great if you have nothing to do other than lounge about and jump in swimming pools. Suddenly 6 months of intense heat doesn't seem so appealing if I have to work in it.

Britons slagging off our own climate rant - over.

[Norfolk And Chance]

Yeah, I always believed the underlying difference between the Kiwis and us is simply the climate.

The difference in climate between say Southern England and the South Island in New Zealand where a substantial proportion of the population live, is negligible. Other than South New Zealand has slightly milder winters.

The North Island is substantially better climate wise than blighty.               

[Siz]

How to fix Broken Britain?

Well for a start, if you are a Briton, stop moaning about the fecking climate. Putting the climate down is just stupid. Fact time - Britain has a temperate maritime climate and one which is rarely too hot, rarely too cold, rarely too wet and rarely too dry.

No, I reserve the right to moan about shit weather. I challenge your 'Fact time' as being completely subjective. I don't EVER find it too hot in this country. The fact that I'll consciously never complain about the heat earns me the right to double-moan about the dull, damp, chilly greyness. 

What is it about British people and constantly putting ourselves down?

The very same self-critical, pragmatic attitude that affords us a comparatively free press and (arguably) moderate government. And if you're gonna rile me on this issue I'm gonna have to sit down with a jolly nice cup-o-tea in protest!

[Crow]

If we can learn anything from history its to do nothing, the more we try to sort things out the more we fuck them up. We usually have such a poor understanding of any issue that whatever we think is the solution actually has bugger all to do with the actual problem and we just get more stupid laws.

[Norfolk And Chance]

How to fix Broken Britain?

Well for a start, if you are a Briton, stop moaning about the fecking climate. Putting the climate down is just stupid. Fact time - Britain has a temperate maritime climate and one which is rarely too hot, rarely too cold, rarely too wet and rarely too dry.

No, I reserve the right to moan about shit weather. I challenge your 'Fact time' as being completely subjective. I don't EVER find it too hot in this country. The fact that I'll consciously never complain about the heat earns me the right to double-moan about the dull, damp, chilly greyness. 

What is it about British people and constantly putting ourselves down?

The very same self-critical, pragmatic attitude that affords us a comparatively free press and (arguably) moderate government. And if you're gonna rile me on this issue I'm gonna have to sit down with a jolly nice cup-o-tea in protest!

There is nothing subjective about the climate data that I drew from. Everything is subjective about a descriptive dull, damp, chilly greyness - which yes we do get occasionally and which you would reasonably expect October/Nnovember time - we're not far from the Arctic you know!

No, it's the stereotype that it is always raining/cold/cloudy/damp that gets me. First of all it's not true because I've had sunburn to prove it, secondly what are we trying to achieve by pushing this miserable stereotype?

[Too Few Lions]

Yeah, I always believed the underlying difference between the Kiwis and us is simply the climate.

The difference in climate between say Southern England and the South Island in New Zealand where a substantial proportion of the population live, is negligible. Other than South New Zealand has slightly milder winters.

The North Island is substantially better climate wise than blighty.               

I don't think that you can talk about a 'Southern England' climate. Are you talking about the South East?  I live in Bristol, and the climate here (and in all of South West England) is fucking awful, and very different from the climate in the South East, where I grew up. Bristol barely ever gets above 20 degrees, even in the summer (18-19 is pretty average), and is usually a good 5 degrees colder than London throughout the summer. It's also a hell of a lot wetter too, raining a good 150-200 days a year, so yes I feel I have the right to say it's a crap climate.

The South East is the only part of the UK, that has a remotely decent climate, but even there it's pretty awful. The climate in the rest of the country stinks, unless you're a slug! Hell I don't work in the UK tourist industry so I feel I don't have to polish that turd! I know the awful climate affects my happiness (particularly in winter) and I suffer with SAD, and I know Scissorlegs is the same too. I've got to the point where I'm seriously considering emigrating to a country with a better climate, I've got friends that have done it and say it's the best move they ever made. I just have to try and persuade my girlfriend to give it a go!

I've never been to NZ so can't comment on the comparison, but looking at stats the south island looks to have a better climate than 90% of the UK. Plus 75% of the population live on the north island (that you admit has a better climate than the UK).

Christchurch is by far the city on the south island and it gets 640mm of rain a year and around 2000+ hours of sunshine. In comparison Bristol gets 850mm and 1500 hours of sunshine, so I think we can say even the south island has a better climate than Bristol, which in turn has a better climate than most of the UK!

Funnily enough one of my best friends from Bristol spent a few years working out in Christchurch, and he says his quality of life dropped massively when he came back to the UK. Property and everything else is much cheaper out there, most people can afford boats so they all go out sailing all the time, and the climate's good enough to do lots of outdoor stuff.  None of that's really possible in 90% of the UK, unless you're a fan of being cold and wet!

There's a good comparison of UK and NZ climates here, and there is a big difference;

http://www.emigratenz.org/NewZealandClimate.html

I long for the day when I can smile and not moan about the weather, but it ain't gonna be in the UK!