Christianity moral or immoral? Sermon on the Mount

[Gawen]

Love those that hate you
Matthew 5:43-48: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I can only speculate, but this piece of crap must have been the scripture Neville Chamberlain had in mind when appeasing Hitler before the war.

When you stop to think about this, there are no enemies until you or the other guy cause such to exist. This piece of morality does not take into account the cause of who started the process. Did Christians love the "Infidel" during the first crusade? Did Christians love Bin Laden after he had people fly aircraft into buildings?

This may have become marginally good advice if it encouraged tolerance, compassion and cooperation between all people. But it seems to apply only to the Christ Brotherhood Country Club. Of course, some Christians may follow this and love their enemy, but it is rare. And there is no reason to think it wise or moral or ethically sound at all. I submit, no one really loves their enemies and apparently Jesus doesn't either, as he's planning on torturing them forever.

How Jesus reconciles this with other passages that induce divisiveness is unknown and a contradiction. For us mere mortals, it is an impossible task.

[Gawen]

Do good works in secret

Matthew 6:1: Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

A contradiction to Matthew 5:16, above. In the very same sermon, he just told people to do their good works where they can be seen.

Some Christians claim that Matt 6:1 only pertains to charity and 5:16 covers "other" good deeds. It is obvious word play to avoid the contradiction. In any case, God, such as he is claimed to be would surely have avoided any ambiguity that would lead to confusion. Sadly, that seems to apply to the bulk of the Bible and not simply this sermon or specifically this verse.

Matthew 6:2-4: Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

The general concept of rewards implies a general concept of a "good deed" before it. This assuages the apologetic appeal of charity being separate from good works. Anyone arguing that there is no contradiction here is rationalising to avoid facing the difficulty of reconciling the two verses. Those who reconcile the contradiction by doing good deeds in public, but don't broadcast it ignores the order to do there alms in "secret".
You can't win for losing.

These are also another carrot and stick type passages that mandate an action/reward/or punishment system of morality instead of just......do good for its own sake.


Prayer
I love the subject of prayer. There is so much to be said of it. But alas, I must confine my thoughts to the Sermon.

Matthew 6:5-8: And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

This would be the outstanding verse in the entire sermon. Pray in private! But very few Christians follow it. A proper understanding and adherence to this verse would make obvious that prayer would not be in schools or any public place at all. It means no swearing at all. No city council meetings with prayers like they do where I live. No Christian television and radio, no Chick tracts, no Watchtower magazine, no public prayer meetings, etc. Christians who support prayer in otherwise non-private venues are hypocrites. They willfully disobey a direct order from their Saviour.

Verse 7 says that you need to pray what is in your heart and avoid recitation and chanting.
But what, of all things, do you see in verses 9-13...

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

...the Lord's Prayer; in direct violation of what Jesus said. It is a clear indication that believers pick and choose as it suits them. I wonder how the poster here, Ecurb Noselrub views this.

Matthew 6:14-15: For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

This seems to be very good advice - forgive people. But it builds on the self-victimization Jesus would have you do in previous verses of the Sermon; after you let your enemies slap both cheeks and give your cloak to the guy that's suing you, forgive them. Oh boy! I can hardly wait to try this out!

Matthew 6:5-8 does not seem to immoral or unethical, but taken as part of the whole sermon....

[Gawen]

Starve yourself

Matthew 6:16-18: Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Fasting in this sense is idiotic and can be very dangerous, not only to one's body, but to their mind as well. It is a ritual as old as time that by depriving yourself of food you will eventually be susceptible to hallucinations and programming, otherwise known as a "religious experience". It allows those willing to suffer in this way pliable to the will of an authority figure. Why does God need people to torture themselves in order to communicate, all the while knowing it is immoral, absurd and unhealthy?

Treasure

Matthew 6:19-23: Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Well, here we are expanding the motive begun in the beatitudes of shifting away from this life to the promise of an afterlife by using greed (treasure) and fear (Hell). What these verses say is life as you know it is futile and that to acquire wealth and experience pleasure is evil. Since there is no evidence that any life beyond this exists, it is double stupidity.

Two masters (or more)

Matthew 6:24: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

How utterly simplistic. How fallacious. What a forced and unwarranted exaggeration. Do not many people have two or more jobs, for example? Is it true that if people who have two jobs that they will automatically hate one master and love the other? Wouldn't it be a tad bit better to say, "don't let any one thing run your life"?

Including your religious beliefs?

[Gawen]

Be happy, take no thought for the future
This is one of my favourite pieces of scripture. The idiocy therein actually requires no commentary, but you all know me...

Matthew 6:25-34: Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

This extremely immoral, unethical and simply bad advice sets up Christians to detach themselves from their responsibility to see to their needs. Jesus would have you see this his way, but birds scavenge and/or hunt. Their primary concern is survival; something Jesus abhors because the end of the world is nigh. Jesus does not seem to know that rational concern for your well being (worrying) is a good thing and that process is what keeps us from giving up.

Jesus wants us to be as driven to life as....I really can't stand to say it, such crap that it is....but he wants us to be like flowers. Comparing humans to a life form that doesn't think, move about or interact with other life forms (like we do) does nothing whatsoever to address the very real issues and concerns that people had at that time, a previous time, today or concerns we may have for the future.

Don't worry about tomorrow, don't save money, don't store food for the winter, don't plan for retirement, don't plan that holiday, don't plan for children or if you have children, don't plan for their needs, never mind the infection might turn to gangrene and better yet...don't even plan to be alive a week from now. Live only for today and trust that God will make everything work out and regardless of what that outcome may be, it is God's will. Rejoice that you never need lift a frackin finger, the lord will provide!

*shaking my head*...This is some of the worst, inane morality in the entire sermon, even if Christians pay lip service to it. Typically, they ignore it. Reality pushes people to ignore it. How Christians reconcile their lifestyles today with ignoring this command from their Saviour...well, only they could say.

[xSilverPhinx]

You are...thorough, Gawen

[Gawen]

Just so you all know, I stayed up till 1:15am last night preparing some of these. On top of that, I was working off less than 5 hours sleep from the night before...so I'm sure there will be...defects.

Hypocrisy
Matthew 7:1-5: Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

If there was a time to say Amen, this is it! The best piece of advice in this sermon yet - don't be a hypocrite. So why is it that every single Christian I have contact with every single day is a hypocrite?

Who let the dogs in?
Matthew 7: 6: Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

This has a couple possible meanings and has been the subject of much contention.
Don't spread the word to others not Jews or non-believers (Gentile dogs)
Don't spread the word to others not proto-Christian Jews or non-believers (Gentile dogs)
Don't spread the word to literal dogs
Don't give to money or wisdom to bad people or the ungrateful or actual pigs because either of the above may not give a shit and turn against you anyway.

Pick one. Or two....or all of them. Jesus, the man behind the curtain uses such ambiguous language, I reckon one would have had to have been there to understand it. Never let it be said the Son of God was well spoken, despite his expertise of the Torah/Tanakh.

Hide and seek
Matthew 7:7-8: Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Good grief....what nonsense. What is the old saying? If it sounds to good to be true...

To promise that which you seek you will actually find is false hope.


Golden?
Matthew 7: 9-12: Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
The so-called Golden Rule is not original to Jesus nor the Hebrew Bible.
There are two formulations: "So whatever you wish that people would do to you, do so to them" (Matthew 7:12; Luke 6:31), or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Jesus is also credited with having been the originator of "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39; Mark 12:31; Luke 10:27) even though this was, in fact, an Old Testament idea which he borrowed from Leviticus 19:18.

But despite all of this, Jesus himself often did not follow these rules. Although he taught that people should love their enemies, he accorded much less than that to people who simply disagreed with him. He displayed barely concealed contempt for his gentile neighbors, equating them with "dogs" (Mark 7:27), and once instructing his disciples to "Go nowhere among the gentiles" (Matthew 10:5). He even refused to heal a gentile child until the child's mother came up with a clever saying (Matthew 15:21-28).

The Golden Rule is known as the 'ethic of reciprocity' and is a basis to many secular concepts of morality and ethics. However, "Do unto others what you would have them do to you" isn't nearly as wise as "Do unto others as they would have you do unto them".

*edited to add*
Jesus spoke out specifically against anger: "Anyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment" (Matthew 5:22); in fact, the context here actually equates anger at a fellow believer of Jesus with everlasting torment. So it would be reasonable to conclude that Jesus would not exhibit the anger he would not want to receive from others. Can anyone imagine Jesus actually engaged in actions which punishments are equated to the punishment of murder? No, but it is surprising therefore, to find that on several occasions Jesus displayed anger.                                                                                    

[Gawen]

You are...thorough, Gawen

Almost done...*grinnin*. The SotM is a bit longer than I realised! Fortunately, I had a good portion of it already saved in other documents I use for other purposes.

[Gawen]

The Gate is as Narrow as the Vision
Jesus says that admission to Heaven is very selective.

Matthew 7:13-14: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Encouraging people to do good when it's difficult and impossible is not very good advice because...(must skip a bit to...)
Matthew 7: 21-23: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22: Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23: Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'    

This contradicts the passage I had to skip over (Matthew 7:15-20 - that deals with false prophets) by pointing out that you, in fact, cannot judge them by their fruit. So, to use Jesus's example, someone believed they prophesied and drove out demons...which would mean they were doing God's work by God's will, but in fact they were not. What is this to say of Jesus himself?

This raises other questions about salvation because there are people who sincerely believe that they are doing the work of God and believe that they will be saved, yet they are not and will not be saved and this contradicts the concept that belief is a key element of salvation.

False prophets
Matthew 7:15-23: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

This is so horribly, logically flawed that no one could ever imagine a wise god could ever have thought it up, let alone said it. So how do you tell a false prophet from a legitimate one? Look at their actions! Apparently false prophets simply cannot do good. In reality, trees can bear good and bad fruit and all people, prophets or not can do good and evil. With all this immoral, unethical, unwise advice from Jesus, what can we make of him? A...dare I say it...false prophet?

This concludes the ethical and moral critique of the Sermon on the Mount. I have tried to keep it simple, but many of you could easily expand each section, finding the immorality and disfunctional ethics therein. It is not difficult to see why Christians overlook this; to adhere to the SotM, Christians simply could not function in today's society...for the same reasons they could not function in their society of yesteryear.

I have one more post to make.

[Gawen]

Well, piss...I forgot the last one

Do these sayings and you become wise
Matthew 7:24-29: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Oh what fun it is to point out that Jesus' words aren't any more stable than building on sand. Those superstitious folks that lived around Capernaum may have been amazed to the point of stupefaction but there is no reason any one today should be impressed.

There's nothing in this sermon that provides the great insight that we'd expect from a divine, all good being. The mistakes, poor analogies, dreadful morality and ethics and otherworldly promises and turning men to beggars seem to eliminate any claim that Jesus was anything more than a mentally disturbed, megalomaniacal psycho/sociopath.

[Gawen]

When one searches Matthew outside the confines of a diabolical sermon for other moral teachings of Jesus, one finds:

(4:1-7) Don't expect God to reveal himself to you
(8:18-20) Don't expect to have a home
(8:21-22) Be willing to desert your parents, even when they die
(10:5-7) About the coming Kingdom of Heaven, spread the message only among fellow Jews; ignore the Samaritans and Gentiles
(10:8-14) Live off of the local population and cure people; ignore those who will not listen to you
(10:17-20) If you get in trouble, don't worry about what to say; God will know what to make you say
(10:32-33) Acknowledge Jr., and he will acknowledge you; disown him, and he will disown you
(10:34-37) Break up your family, because you ought to love JC more than your family members
(12:1-14) It's OK to work on the Sabbath if you really need to, like collecting food to eat and curing disease
(12:31-32) Do not ever expect to be forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Spirit
(12:46-50) Treat your fellow believers as your real family, more important than your biological or marital family
(13:1-52) Put a lot of effort into getting into the Kingdom of Heaven, it is like a super valuable pearl, etc. etc. etc. -- Jr. repeats this message in several parables elsewhere
(15:10-11) Don't concern yourself with what you eat as much as with what your say
(16:4) If you are wicked, don't expect any divine sign other than divine disapproval
(16:5-12) Beware of the teachings of the Pharisees and Sadducees
(16:27-28) Expect Jesus Christ to make his Second Coming in your lifetime
(17:20-21) Have lots of faith, and you can move mountains in a very literal sense, by telling them to move
(18:1-6) To be worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven, you must be like a little child
(18:7-8) Repeat of how you must remove body parts that make you commit sins
(18:7-15) Try to resolve differences between you and your friends and family
(19:3-9) Divorce is a no-no, except for unfaithfulness, and remarrying makes you guilty of adultery
(19:10-12) Consider neutering yourself for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven
(19:14) Repeat of be like little children in order to get into the Kingdom of Heaven
(19:16-24) Sell everything you have and give the money to the poor, because a rich person can no more enter the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel or a thick rope can pass through the eye of a needle
(21:12-13) Don't be afraid to throw a temper tantrum in a house of worship ruled by moneygrubbing pious frauds
(21:18-22) Pray for something, and you will get it, just like Jr's zapping of a certain fig tree
(22:15-22) Pay your taxes; give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's
(22:23-32) Don't expect your marriages and relationships to continue into the Kingdom of Heaven
(22:37) Love God with every possible bit of effort
(22:39) Love your neighbor as yourself
(23:9) Treat only God as your real father
(23:10) Treat only Jr. as your real teacher
(25:31-46) Help those who are down and out

In fact, some of the Kid's teachings are much like those of the Cynic philosophers, who wandered around in similar fashion. That may explain some of the oddities. In Mark 6, our Hero tells his followers to take only a staff and sandals, no bag or an extra cloak. But in Matthew 10 and Luke 9, he says take none of that. By comparison, the Cynics were known for traveling with a staff, a bag, and a thin cloak, but no sandals. Many of the teachings attributed to Jesus are the same as Cynic teachings.

And "the poor" that we're supposed to be helping? Those are the wandering preachers (Cynic or proto-Christian), who were dependent on handouts. Woe unto thee for not giving to the panhandling preachers! This Cynic-like lifestyle also explains why JR. warns that you will not have a permanent home if you follow him: When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go." Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." (Matthew 8:18-20)...the bum!

To expand:
The Gospel of Thomas is a collection of sayings without biographical details. Much of it is rather cryptic, like where it says that the Kingdom of Heaven is within you and you have to look within yourself to find it. Does that mean that that kingdom is a state of mystical enlightenment? That's the "mystery" of the gospel? What's more, much of the gospel of John was written to counter Thomas, not the other way around.

Much of the rest of Thomas's content parallels Matthew, Mark, and Luke: you must desert your family, you must give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's, you will not be forgiven for blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the Pharisees are wicked, etc. Some of it is just plain weird, it must be said. At its beginning, we find that if you understand this Gospel, you will live forever.

At its end, we find that a woman must get a sex change before she can enter the Kingdom of Heaven...

*scratching my head in total wonderment*...I guess I'm going to live a finite life beause I simply cannot wrap my head around superstition such as this.

Turning to the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, we find that Jesus worked lots of miracles when he was a little boy. As in the canonical Gospels, most of them are beneficent miracles, like curing disease, but there is one where he zaps a little boy who had run into him. There are not many moral teachings, but the gospel repeats the teaching of the other gospels that it's alright to do certain sorts of work on the Sabbath. Like making clay statues of sparrows and turning them into real ones. Suffer not the children...

[Gawen]

I lied...

One more and then I feel a vacation coming on...

Are there immoral, unethical acts in the Bible? You betcha; many of which the Bible does not discuss. Rape is treated as an offense against property rather than as a crime against human dignity. Pulling out of coitus with your deceased brother's widow and spilling semen on the ground is considered a crime against your deceased brother and of God. Modern concerns such as abortion, stem cell research and cloning are not mentioned, so readers who object to these practices must either rely on extra-biblical sources of authority, or tease these "Thou shalt not do" from or into the biblical text.

It is, however, apparent that Jesus' ethical views were not based solely on Mosaic Law. According to the authors of the New Testament, in some ways, the laws put forward by Jesus are easier to follow than those in the Torah, while in some ways they are harder. The text depicts Jesus as observing the dietary laws and not observing them in others.  We know that the Jewish laws were controversial in the early church; see Acts 15 for example. It is possible that the author of Mark was taking Jesus' words slightly further or out of context than Jesus had intended in order to make a point on one side of the debate.

In some ways, Jesus' ethics were more strict than those of the Law. The Jewish rules on divorce were simple from the point of view of the man; only he was required to give his wife a certificate of divorce. Jesus alters this completely in Matthew 5:31 and the change does not benefit women at all, who would have been allowed to remarry under the Law.

All of the commands attributed to Jesus are impossible to follow completely, the same as with the Law. As shown above, the Sermon on the Mount contains instructions to love one's enemies, and to "give to all who ask." Since one commonly-accepted ethical rule is "ought implies can"...in other words, if one is unable to do something, then it makes no sense to say that one ought to do it, which then renders Jesus' ethical system unrealistic.

Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27 are fatal Biblical flaws in that Jesus says that some of his listeners will not taste death before he comes again in his kingdom. This was said almost 2000 years ago so there must be a few listeners at that time still alive. This and many other passages indicate that Jesus was to come again in a relatively short period of time and not just "quickly" as present day Biblicists assert. Although I can't prove it, I think it is safe to say all of his listeners are now dead, yet Jesus has not come again in his kingdom. All of the alleged words of Jesus recorded in the Bible are therefore suspect.

Mark 16:17-18 is also a fatal Biblical flaw in that a believer can handle snakes or drink poison and experience no harm. Many unfortunate believers have died as a result of handling snakes and drinking poison. This kind of assertion standing on it's own merit negates the entire Bible as a useful guidebook for life.

Do a search in the Bible of 'family values' and the first thing to pop up should be Leviticus 20:5: "Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people." It certainly cannot be ethical or moral to turn against a man's family because that man makes you angry. In fact, it reminds me of a joke: "Our high school football team was so bad; they would sack their own quarterback and then go after his family." God is a lot like that in the Bible.

In the New Testament, we find much the same thing. In fact, many of the references of the word "compassion" and "trust" come directly from the Torah. Possibly the worst example of all regarding family values comes from the New Testament: Matthew 10:34 – 37: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

Imagine sacrificing the love of your parents, your children, and your spouse and exchange it for the love of an unseen, unknown, unimaginable God that you must fear at the same time. That any God should ask such a sacrifice should make him completely unworthy in the eyes of any reasonable human being. These are the family values of Christianity?

Ethics teachers commonly develop full and coherent ethical systems that would provide a comprehensive basis for teaching proper behavior and attitudes. Unfortunately, no such system is to be found in the Bible. Instead we find a patchwork quilt of homilies and pronouncements, some of which are unclear and others are contradictory and none of which, it seems, can be verified.

Given that Jesus thought the world was ending, the Day of Judgment was coming, and all would be sorted into the saved or damned camps (Matt. 25:31-46), it makes perfect sense that his ethics were utterly and radically junk. He puts no value on earthly wealth, fame, power, or family. He urges his followers to forsake wealth, fame, power, or family to focus on entirely and impossibly purifying their own character, doing good works, seen by others or not, and spreading the gospel.  Believers are not seeking to have a pleasant or successful life on Earth. You are applying to get into Heaven when the Earth is destroyed.

If he didn't have a system, what about his main principle?  Many Christians will quickly refer you to what is considered his primary principle: Matthew 22:37-38: "You shall love the Lord God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment." However, it must be remembered that the context of Jesus' ministry was not only anti ethical and immoral, but harsh, otherworldly, and urgent - therefore casting a slightly different light on this so-called "great commandment." I submit Jesus' main principle was preaching the end of the world with salvation as an end to worldly suffering and his teachings are the ways to achieve this.

How do we achieve everlasting life through the teachings of Jesus?  Well, it is not as simple as one may think if you read or have read this thread.


I wonder what it's like in Germany this time of year?

[Tank]

Full of beer and sausages if you go to the right place!

[Gawen]

Full of beer and sausages if you go to the right place!

*laffin*...

And I bet that was the only line in the entire thread you read....*laffin harder*

[Tank]

Full of beer and sausages if you go to the right place!

*laffin*...

And I bet that was the only line in the entire thread you read....*laffin harder*

Drat! You sussed me there!

[Gawen]

Full of beer and sausages if you go to the right place!

*laffin*...

And I bet that was the only line in the entire thread you read....*laffin harder*

Drat! You sussed me there!

*mourning heavily*....Why do I do it.....why do I punish myself so.......where's stevil when you need him....