Is Christianity moral or immoral?

[Gawen]

I would like to know your views. Is it moral and/or ethical overall, or not? Are there parts that are moral or not? I have mine (Christianity is immoral), but will wait for others to chime in before I lay my reasons out.

[Tank]

It depends how literally a Christian interprets the passages of the bible that they think are moral. Christianity can be neither moral nor immoral as it is not a person with a choice. Only a person can be moral or immoral and their behaviour will be the result of their genes, upbringing and experiences.

So the question should be "Does Christian doctrine/dogma influence its followers to behave in what the majority of reasonable people would consider a moral or immoral way?" And of course the instant problem is what datum would one use to define moral or immoral behaviour? If the majority of people are Christian their view of moral behaviour will be biased by their Christianity.

[The Magic Pudding]

I'd say it is danger of being immoral because it sees god as more important than people.
Great cathedrals are nice but what else could the money have been spent on? 
Improved sanitation and water supply would have been more practical.
It's hard to place a value on the benefit given by a great work of architecture, but I don't think the peoples needs were given much consideration when they were built, it was for god.  This seems immoral to me.

I find the arguments against contraception very weak.  Under the influence of god the faithful are doing much harm, but suffering in this world doesn't matter that much because it's only an entrée to eternity.

[Xjeepguy]

Well, the entire religion is based on a book of impossible lies, they spread intolerance and hate, they are charitable, as long as you are the right color, love the right gender, and think the way they do..... They are a more publicly acceptable version of the ku klux klan in my honest opinion.

Answer: immoral.

[MariaEvri]

for me, a religion that has a rule that says a woman should marry her rapist and never divorce him (among MANY other things) is anything BUT moral

[OldGit]

From my perspective, I find its manifestations are often immoral.  From their point of view it defines morality.

[xSilverPhinx]

I find Christians (not going to generalise) can be immoral. They don't see themselves as responsible for their actions as they would without a bible/church/theology to lean on.

They are among the most ignorant yet the quickest to judge (and sometimes condemn, at least morally) others.

They accept teachings without questioning, some of those teaching causing harm to others.

And to top it all off, they're insufferably holier-than-thou. Wonderful.

The times and moral zeitgeist changes quicker than their moral system, leaving them to squabble over primitive questions.

[Gawen]

Some of you have hit on a few points I make. Feel free to pick apart the (long) post below.

Is it moral to believe your sins can be forgiven by the punishment of another person? Is it ethical to believe this? I submit the doctrine of vicarious human sacrifice and subsequent redemption (the rock on which Christianity is based) is utterly immoral.

I might if I wished say, "Look here. You're in debt and I just won a billion dollar lottery and I'll pay your debts for you. Maybe you may pay me back someday, but for now I can get you out of trouble." I could say if I really loved someone sentenced to prison if I could find a way to serve your sentence, I would. Why, I might take your place on the electric chair.

Sounds really good doesn't it? But I can't take away your responsibilities and I can't say you didn't commit the crime that put you in the electric chair in the first place. And I can't make you become clean. Ancient Middle East society called this 'scapegoating'. They would pile the sins of the family or tribe on the goat and drive it out into the desert leaving it to starve and die - a positively immoral doctrine that abolishes the concept of personal responsibility on which all ethics and morality must depend.

A further implication: I'm told I MUST have a share in this human sacrifice that allegedly took place long before I was born. I had no say in it happening and I wasn't consulted about it. I'm told I'm implicated; I myself drove in the nails due to the original filthy sin I was conceived in. Had this happened today, I would be bound in my best attempt to stop the public torture and execution of an innocent eccentric rabbi.

Here is what we find most sinister about monotheism and Christian practices; the fact that it is insipiently and explicitly totalitarian. We are born under an invisible celestial dictatorship which we could not have any hand in choosing and have no say whatsoever. We are told it watches us all the time, even while we sleep, have sex, go to the bathroom. We are told it can convict and condemn us of what we think; if we think the wrong thoughts. If we commit a right action, its sole purpose is to evade punishment and if we commit a wrong action, we will suffer not only punishment in life, but also in death and for eternity. And believers say this is moral and where we get absolute morality from.

In the Old Testament, gruesome as it is, recommending as it is of genocide, racism, tribalism, slavery, genital mutilation, the displacement and destruction of others (amongst a plentitude of other immoral and unethical acts); the gods were do not punish the dead. There is no talk of torture after you die in the OT. This disgusting doctrine surfaces only when gentle and meek Jesus surfaces with a message of those that do not accept his message must depart in death to everlasting torture and calls it moral. Once again I submit, not only is it not ethical or moral, not only does it come with a false promise of vicarious atonement and redemption through virgin birthing and resurrection, it is the origin of the totalitarian principle which has been such a heavy burden and unseen shame upon humanity for so long...too long.

How many of you would say you would believe something because it may cheer you up? How many of you would tell your children something was true, even if it isn't, because it might stop their tears? How many of you indulge in wishful thinking? Do we not hear it repeatedly said that many of the biblical stories may not be true or were figurative or allegorical or metaphorical and the history of it may be dubious BUT, it provides consolation? Can anyone who believes this not feel the tiniest amount of embarrassment in that their thinking is wishfully – flawed?

But yes, wouldn't be great to transfer all your sins and responsibilities to someone else who would gladly take them and have those sins absolved? But it's not true nor morally and ethically sound. Christianity undermines humanity's basic integrity; it dissolves our obligation to live for, search for and witness for the truth. What makes Christianity even more sinister, to be able to choose a right or wrong action or thought is that one does not have that moral ability innately but rather comes from a celestial dictatorship which one must love and simultaneously - fear.

I've never tried this as I'm not a man of the cloth, but what is it like, I want to know, to lie to children for a living; to tell children that there is an authority that they must compulsory love and be terrified of at the same time? What is it like to tell children that they do not have an innate sense of learning right and wrong or fairness and decency without the Great Sky Daddy? This is morally disgusting

We are lead to think the ancients thought that adultery, murder, theft and perjury were par for the day. We are told specifically that the ancient Israelites thought that adultery, murder, theft and perjury were fine and dandy until they came to the foot of Mt. Sinai where they are then told 40 days later it's not kosher after all. Well, don't you think we must have more self respect for ourselves and for others than that? Of course nothing of the sort took place but it's an insult to all humanity and our integrity because if we believe that adultery, murder, theft and perjury were all right before the 10 Commandments, we never would have made it to Egypt, wandering for forty years afterward and then to the foot of Mt.Sinai or anywhere else.

According to the Christian faith, depending if one believes mankind has been around for 100,000 years or so God stands around (after he kills everything on the earth) for 98,000 years until it's time to once again intervene. And the best way of intervening is an illegal Jewish human sacrifice in an ancient Middle East backwater; a place where the news would take 1,970 years to cover the globe and still hasn't covered completely. And according to Christian doctrine, that would be our redemption and as a Christian, one must believe it. But it is not decent to believe it. To believe in and worship this God is to venerate the designer of the Universe who was entirely lazy, inept, unbelievably callous, cruel, capricious and indifferent.

The final insult Christianity and mainstream religion bestows upon us is that it appeals to our self-centeredness, our solipsism. Look at it like this: You're a chunk of mud, a wretched born in sin creature by God's design and lucky to be alive by God's grace, God fashioned you for his convenience, you are filth - born in sin and should be disgusted by your own sexuality but, take heart, the Universe is designed for you in mind.

I can't believe there is a thinking person who reads this that does not realize that humanity would begin to grow higher if it emancipated itself from this sinister and childishness behavior.

[Stevil]

That was a great read Gawen.

I'd also like to point out that of the three most significant women in the book, one was a virgin (a symbol of purity???), one was a whore (a symbol of Jesus' ability to love all), the other was the reason for humanities' original sin, all other women are punished for her act of taking the fruit of knowledge by having painful births and to be support for men's worship of god.

How come people don't go around talking about the virgin Jesus?

[Sweetdeath]

Yeah, my biggest beef with christianity is; people are raised to truly believe in a 2,000 year old myth.

It breeds hatred and intolerance against gender and sexuality: two things one IS BORN with.
It breeds hatred that one gender is better than other.   It also says that prayer does more for someone than physical action.

And I agree with whoever said money should be going to helping people, not any church, where idiots sit and worship invisible sky daddy.

Also, I think REAL morals come from good parenting and personal experience.

Ps- the bible stomps on individuality and wants everyone to be creepy, smiling clones.

Answer: immoral

[The Magic Pudding]

[Will]

Christianity is amoral (despite its claims to the contrary). Christians are moral and immoral.

[Stevil]

I don't subscribe to morality. There is no such thing.

I would however suggest that Christianity inspires it's followers to be more likely to behave detrimental to society in some ways. e.g. Sexist, biast against homosexuals, agressive towards Atheists and non Christians.

[Asmodean]

Christianity is a tool. Most people using that tool are of questionable morality, not unlike people in general.

Thus, the morality of Christianity depends on the morality of an individual follower or a group in question which in turn is highly situational and egocentric.

[Gawen]

Christianity is amoral (despite its claims to the contrary).

I must disagree. I made a fair case in my post above that shows otherwise. I think you need to show us how my case is wrong. Tell us how Christianity, in its basic doctrine/dogma/tenets (what have you) is amoral. Show us how compulsory love is amoral. Show us how a celestial, invisible, totalitarian dictatorship in which you have no say is amoral. Show us how vicarious atonement is amoral.

I have also shown, in other threads on this board, how the Christ teachings are also immoral.

Christians are moral and immoral.

This thread does not consider individual Christian morality or ethics. How the individual Christian compartmentalizes his/her belief in the morality of Christendom or balancing societies morals and ethics with Christianity's moral and ethics is beyond the scope of the topic.