Can't quite get rid of my last bit of religious superstition

[none123]

I was brainwashed into religion my entire life. Not just church, but a class every day for all four 4 years of high school, classes in college, a 2 year mission of nothing but teaching the church, constant pounding religious beliefs into me by mainly my parents, but also by pretty much everyone I knew grewing up. And I just started considering myself to be an athiest about 4 years ago, and now some times I just can't let go of some of the superstitions.

For instance, a couple weeks ago my 1 year old son had gotten sick (nothing serious) but it just broke my heart that he was coughing so much and not able to breathe very well, and felt completely helpless, and for the first time in years, prayed that he would get better. It was because of feelings of helplessness and desperation, and nothing else that I could do, was willing to try anything (already went to the doctor and got medicine of course).  Of course he got better with the help on his own and within a couple days just as the doctor said he would, and would have wheather or not I had talked to myself pretending to speak to a powerful invisible man.

Also my parents have pounded it into my brain forever that we are in the end of days and jesus will soon come back, and that is why there is so much more destruction than ever before (of course that isn't true). So when the earthquake hit japan, thought nothing of it having to do with signs from god about the second coming, but then after all the aftershocks and a 7.0 a month later, I just had a really faint thought that maybe there is something to that.  A couple minutes of research on the internet to find out there were worse earthquakes and close together timewise in the 1960's then it put my mind back at ease. But shouldn't have had to look it up to quiet my mind.

How do I get rid of it completely when it was taught to me for 20 years, probably an average of 10-15 hours a week (besides the non stop mission) and no more about the church than any other subject that there is.

[xSilverPhinx]

I think maybe the fact that you know they're superstitions goes a long way, and maybe with some more time and reprogramming (so that when massive disasters happen, you don't assume it was an event foretelling an apocalypse with biblical connotations) you might get rid of them.

I'm just curious to know... how pervasive are the lingering doubts to whether the god you believed in exists or not? It's relevant because the god concept takes advantage of 'just in case' situations in people who are trying to survive (even if in the afterlife) and so it can be a particularly difficult one to stop.

[Tank]

I don't think you ever will be completely free of superstition, because I think superstition is a side effect of what make humans human. We are evolved cause>effect machines. And when we witness an effect we seek a cause and where we can't find a cause we substitute a 'best guess' and for all but a tiny fraction of human history the 'best guess' was superstition. It would not be too many years ago you would have considered you son's illness to have been induced by daemons, many people still do consider illness to be spirit based.

Having three kids I know the feeling when they are ill, particularly when they are too young to understand that they are ill and that things are being done to help them. There is nothing wrong with preying under those circumstances if it gives you comfort, but you know full well that it's a waste of time. But humans have, and always will, clutch at straws in time of desperate need it's another part of being human and we can't deny what we are; flawed evolved apes with just enough brains to be dangerous.

I've never been a believer but I still catch myself being superstitious, so it's hardly surprising that a person who has been put through a systematic indoctrination as you have been is finding it difficult to completely leave that indoctrination behind. I think vestiges of it will always be with you, you've just got to learn to live with them as you are doing. There will be periods when the feeling of impotence in the real world would lead you to fall back on trying to influence the real world in any way you can.  

So don't fret, you're just doing what you evolved to do.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I don't think you ever will be completely free of superstition, because I think superstition is a side effect of what make humans human. We are evolved cause>effect machines. And when we witness an effect we seek a cause and where we can't find a cause we substitute a 'best guess' and for all but a tiny fraction of human history the 'best guess' was superstition. It would not be too many years ago you would have considered you son's illness to have been induced by daemons, many people still do consider illness to be spirit based.

I agree with this. I was raised Christian as well and every now and then I catch myself doing something superstitious. Recently, my friend's 18 year old brother died. His family is very religious (though not preachy) and I attended the funeral. At one point my friend asked everyone to pray for his brother. I did. (okay, I didn't really pray "to God", but I had an internal conversation about my friend's brother, what a nice person he was, how I was hoping that his family would be able to get through this difficult time, etc.). I knew I was just talking to myself, but it still felt good and I still did it because it meant something to me.

I firmly believe that there is something very deep in human nature that likes and needs rituals. Even most atheists have rituals. Religion has capitalized on this human need by tying religious belief to the comfort that we find in rituals. As long as you know that you are only doing these things for YOU (and not to appease some Daddy figure in the sky) I don't see the harm in them.

The great thing about being a non-believer is that you don't have to worry about doing the "right" thing  every second and there is no punishment if you indulge in practices that aren't 100% in keeping with your beliefs (or lack thereof). Don't worry, it'll come. Don't beat yourself up.  

[ThinkAnarchy]

I'm from a somewhat similar background and my defense against it is that I'm naturally skeptical of everything initially. I refuse to believe most things until I see the evidence or logic to back it up. With that said, I still can't help myself from using religious expletives like "god damnit" and "jesus f-ing christ", as well as religious positives like "god bless you." I hate myself for saying these things, but simply can't help myself. I hope this helps somewhat, but fear it's completely irrelevant. 

[Medusa]

I'm from a somewhat similar background and my defense against it is that I'm naturally skeptical of everything initially. I refuse to believe most things until I see the evidence or logic to back it up. With that said, I still can't help myself from using religious expletives like "god damnit" and "jesus f-ing christ", as well as religious positives like "god bless you." I hate myself for saying these things, but simply can't help myself. I hope this helps somewhat, but fear it's completely irrelevant. 

Yeah I still say God Bless you. I think of it as a culteral thing and have removed the religious connotation out of it. I did try to say Satan damn you for a bit. But I felt like a tool and laughed myself silly over the silliness of it .

[Gawen]

Tank and Juliet are right with one exception; not that they are wrong, per say.

I don't think you ever will be completely free of superstition

There's not a superstitious bone in my body. I've been away from indoctrination, confirmation bias, communal reinforcement and the like for a very long time. I've immersed myself into "atheistic", "freethought", and religious research for the last 16 years. The words 'faith' and 'belief' are not in my every day usage vocabulary. But here's the kicker...

I've never 'believed' in the stuff. Throughout my first 17 years of life, while attending church with my family, I've always had the lack of religious/superstitious belief (or others would say, no belief at all). You grew up believing in and achieving an afterlife when your body expires. But what, may I ask did you do BEFORE you were born? Like myself, you were born an atheist. But now is the time to use or perhaps redevelop your critical thinking and reasoning skills, using a good dose of Occam's razor and to find atheists around you who will help you in being rid of any guilt you may feel.

Yes, it's possible to assuage all forms of superstition. To some (rarely) it comes rather easily...for others it's a lifelong search. But you must remember those you may know or have heard about that suddenly find Jesus or the Holy Spirit and how easily it came to them. Man is extremely proficient in self deceiving and deluding himself. Getting away from that can be frustrating at times. It's kind of like quitting smoking...never quit quitting.

Good luck and I hope we can help you through the rougher times.

[Hidelight]

People will do just about anything especially where kids are concerned...there is validity in anything harmless
That brings you comfort when you feel out of control
If you find peace in prayer and meditation when your child is ill...what harm? I think rather than fight with you past why not let it evolve into now this is part of you journey and should not be erased...just encoperate it into who you are...this takes a while
Do not feel guilty for pulling out any ammo real or not when you are upset or worried
So you rely on something you find contrary to what you actually believe...trust me you are not alone!
I have never been a theist...but I light candles for comfort all the time
They bring me to the moment and give me a bit of peace...do I think candles have any " spiritual power"? Sort of
They lift my spirit! But in of itself lighting a candle holds no real power
The power is me doing something distracting and peaceful

[Gawen]

People will do just about anything especially where kids are concerned...there is validity in anything harmless
That brings you comfort when you feel out of control
If you find peace in prayer and meditation when your child is ill...what harm?

The harm is only internal. Read my signature, if you please.

I have never been a theist...but I light candles for comfort all the time
They bring me to the moment and give me a bit of peace...do I think candles have any " spiritual power"? Sort of
They lift my spirit! But in of itself lighting a candle holds no real power
The power is me doing something distracting and peaceful

Lighting a candle for a calming effect is one thing. It's no different than taking a hot bath with some sort of aroma beads. Neither one invokes the supernatural or superstition...unless one wishes to. And if one is trying to break away from the chains of dogma, praying will only make it harder to do so.

If one can see the faults of faith superstitions and break away from it, but pray in certain circumstances (I'm sure this next bit will be considered terse by some and I mean no disrespect or insult by it) it's my opinion they still live the lie.



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[Medusa]

I have no ill will towards prayer used correctly. As in let's pray this heart attack just sorta goes away all on its own. That stuff sucks. But prayer..to speak to something..speak to whoever you want. I don't think it hurts one internally. It's not as if prayer strikes a human being dumb. Dumb crosses all religions and non religion. That's just my personal opinion on prayer.

I personally have tried to pray. I mean really tried. When reverting to Islam I did the whole pray 5 times a day. I found I was literally just doing it to nothing and felt completely silly. While my boyfriend prays 5 times a day on the dot and feels the benefits. And he's a hell of lot smarter than I will ever be. 

[Gawen]

I personally have tried to pray. I mean really tried. When reverting to Islam I did the whole pray 5 times a day. I found I was literally just doing it to nothing and felt completely silly. While my boyfriend prays 5 times a day on the dot and feels the benefits. And he's a hell of lot smarter than I will ever be. 

I have a friend that prays to two Roman Goddesses and he feels the benefits. Mans predilection for self deception and delusion knows no bounds. If one is going to pray, he may as well pray to all 2700 Gods and Goddesses...for obvious reasons.

Prayer necessarily means that you are not the center of your universe.  Someone/thing supernatural is.

[Medusa]

I personally have tried to pray. I mean really tried. When reverting to Islam I did the whole pray 5 times a day. I found I was literally just doing it to nothing and felt completely silly. While my boyfriend prays 5 times a day on the dot and feels the benefits. And he's a hell of lot smarter than I will ever be. 

I have a friend that prays to two Roman Goddesses and he feels the benefits. Mans predilection for self deception and delusion knows no bounds. If one is going to pray, he may as well pray to all 2700 Gods and Goddesses...for obvious reasons.

Prayer necessarily means that you are not the center of your universe.  Someone/thing supernatural is.

If you are aware of the self delusion than it's merely a tool. Though I do realize most of those who pray don't realize the delusion they are in.

I don't pray. But I know I'm not the center of the universe. I think that way of thinking went out after the dark ages, nay?

[Sweetdeath]

Prayers do absolutely ziltch. I think it's like the placebo effect, where you only think you're getting better.  That's the term I am looking for, I think.

[ThinkAnarchy]

Prayers do absolutely ziltch. I think it's like the placebo effect, where you only think you're getting better.  That's the term I am looking for, I think.

With the placebo effect you do get better, it simply isn't because of the sugar pills. With prayer, people simply have selective memories. If you pray for enough things, some of them are bound to happen.

Ex. I pray today for sunshine, and it is sunny all day, I will remember that and say my prayer came to fruition. We don't readily remember the times we prayed for sunny days, yet it rained.

With that said, yes prayer is a placebo effect in many cases. It is nothing more than a sugar pill and people get better despite it. It is also true people get better because of prayer, due to the fact they "think" the prayers are doing something. I also don't think placebo's can work if the person is aware of them.

[Gawen]

But I know I'm not the center of the universe. I think that way of thinking went out after the dark ages, nay?

You misread me. "Center of your universe"...whatever that may mean to anyone.