The cycle

[Whitney]

but we came from the universe, where nothing is created or destroyed just changed or manipulated.

The rule is that ENERGY can't be created nor destroyed...but that only applies in the general sense.  What we understand to be physical laws of the universe tend to break down into something much more strange when we look at things on a very tiny scale.

As far as homosexuals, no one is born gay, you can argue with me all you want, but gay scientific researchers have been known to have found ZERO proof that people are born gay. No such thing as gay genetics or centers in the brain that conduce homosexual behavior. Would it be right to persecute homosexuals? Hell no, but they are wishfully thinking if they think they were made that way. If you disagree, prove me wrong, would be glad to listen, unless your just trying to be a smart a$$.

This has already been covered elsewhere on the forum via past threads...I'll just say that there is research that supports homosexuality being natural (a very obvious one being that it occurs naturally in other animals) but I don't feel like trying to prove to you that you are wrong because I don't expect you to be receptive to it considering how you reacted to being informed that you were wrong about people not being able to be described.

Do you have anything of value to add to the forum or are you just going to keep on telling us what you think without supporting it because we don't allow preaching.

[Tank]

Prenatal endocrine influences on sexual orientation and on sexually differentiated childhood behavior

Department of Social and Developmental Psychology, University of Cambridge, UK

ABSTRACT: Both sexual orientation and sex-typical childhood behaviors, such as toy, playmate and activity preferences, show substantial sex differences, as well as substantial variability within each sex. In other species, behaviors that show sex differences are typically influenced by exposure to gonadal steroids, particularly testosterone and its metabolites, during early development (prenatally or neonatally). This article reviews the evidence regarding prenatal influences of gonadal steroids on human sexual orientation, as well as sex-typed childhood behaviors that predict subsequent sexual orientation. The evidence supports a role for prenatal testosterone exposure in the development of sex-typed interests in childhood, as well as in sexual orientation in later life, at least for some individuals. It appears, however, that other factors, in addition to hormones, play an important role in determining sexual orientation. These factors have not been well-characterized, but possibilities include direct genetic effects, and effects of maternal factors during pregnancy. Although a role for hormones during early development has been established, it also appears that there may be multiple pathways to a given sexual orientation outcome and some of these pathways may not involve hormones.

I'll just leave this here in case anybody actually feels that bicycle's baseless assertions should be given any credence whatsoever.

[AnimatedDirt]

As far as homosexuals, no one is born gay, you can argue with me all you want, but gay scientific researchers have been known to have found ZERO proof that people are born gay. No such thing as gay genetics or centers in the brain that conduce homosexual behavior. Would it be right to persecute homosexuals? Hell no, but they are wishfully thinking if they think they were made that way. If you disagree, prove me wrong, would be glad to listen, unless your just trying to be a smart a$$.

I've kind of been with you up to this point.  I am a Christian.

I think you're correct that no person was/is created homosexual.  However neither was/is any person created sinful, yet from conception we are sinful. (Lots of theology in that)  Homosexuality is part of sin and while there may not be an actual homosexual gene, people are born with whatever it is that bends them to what society sees as abnormal.  I don't condone homosexual ACTS, but I do support the homosexual's personal struggle and promote that BEING a homosexual is no more sinful than simply BEING born.  The sin is in the acts and not solely on what gender they are attracted to.  They are loved and can be covered by Christ's atonement just as any heterosexual can be.  Much more has been discussed here at HAF on the matter.  If you're interested, look it up.

[Too Few Lions]

bicycle, out of interest, do you identify with any of the known gods or religions of the world, or are you a panentheist of sorts without affiliation to any particular religion?

Personally, I have a few issues with the idea of a god that is 'Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient, Everything in existence and nothing, alpha and omega.'

I think anyone claiming their god is omnipotent and omnipresent has to answer Epicurus' big question set 2300 years ago, why is there so much suffering, warfare, wrongdoing and general unpleasantness and rubbish in the world? I guess either your god just doesn't care about such things (I'm sure human suffering is beneath the interests of such a lofty deity), or maybe it's just not a benevolent god (to be fair you never claimed it was). Either way, even if it were to exist, it doesn't sound much like a god worthy of my time and belief.

I also have to wonder why an omnipotent and omnipresent god appears to lack the ability to show itself to the world and provide us with some tangible evidence of its existence. I also have to question its decision to let so many small minded fundamentalist (and often violent) people pretend to represent it on this planet.

Maybe the answer is this god has no interest in us or in showing us it exists, in which case it can't really blame us for coming to the conclusion that it probably doesn't exist! I then have to ask if this god has no interest in us, is it really going to care if we believe in it or not?

[bicycle]

Too Few Lions,
Suffering is a relative term. That's like saying why do people get cold. Cold wouldn't exist without warmth. Cold is just an absence of heat or energy. Clearly, there would be no such thing as good without bad...From our perspective, suffering seems to not be fair, but then again none of us have died yet. What would death be like if you suffered your whole life? Would life be fair if you couldn't die? IMO no, because then the suffering would be in vain.

Edited for preaching LOL...

[Whitney]

Too Few Lions,
If you didn't know, life is all about suffering.

^this is preaching...stop.

If you can't at least attempt to prove something then you shouldn't bring it up on this forum.

[bicycle]

Ok I'll stop preaching...but I'm not dumb enough to try and prove God exists, that's like me daring you to prove God doesn't exist...If God was proven to exist, there wouldn't be religion, I hypothesize we would all be slaves... Seriously though, they can ask me why we suffer, but I'm not allowed to answer the question? Give me a break, what was I supposed to say? Only suckers suffer. yaa right.

[Whitney]

Seriously though, they can ask me why we suffer, but I'm not allowed to answer the question? Give me a break, what was I supposed to say?

Explaining your view is not preaching, stating it without any support is preaching.

If you aren't smart enough to figure out the difference then you aren't a good fit for this forum anyway.

[Too Few Lions]

Too Few Lions,
Suffering is a relative term. That's like saying why do people get cold. Cold wouldn't exist without warmth. Cold is just an absence of heat or energy. Clearly, there would be no such thing as good without bad...From our perspective, suffering seems to not be fair, but then again none of us have died yet. What would death be like if you suffered your whole life? Would life be fair if you couldn't die? IMO no, because then the suffering would be in vain.

Edited for preaching LOL...

It would be nice if you could answer my questions! like do you identify with any of the known gods or religions of the world, or are you a panentheist of sorts without affiliation to any particular religion?
I'm just trying to work out what you actually believe in (if anything).

Personally I'm not sure suffering is a completely relative term. If I'm very ill, injured, starving, being tortured, having my flesh eaten by maggots etc I think I'm suffering. The sense receptors in my body are registering pain and that suffering exists. I'd still like to know how you reconcile all the suffering in the world to your idea of an omnipotent god. I'd also like to know why this omnipotent god can't provide any tangible evidence of its existence.

The only conclusion I can reach is that this deity is totally remote and disinterested in you, I or any other human being, which is fair enough, but you don't seem any better off believing in this kind of god than you would be being an atheist. Which makes me wonder why you think it's so pointless being an atheist.

[ThinkAnarchy]

People are wrong when they use religions to persecute others, that is not the job of religion, and I am religious but still use critical thinking...God can be described, just like I can be described, but no one can truly define me or any other person specifically... Anyways, the universe is far too perfect to not have been created for nothing, or to not have a creator.

This line of reasoning that you insist on repeating is really annoying me. God can't be described in the same sense as I or anyone on this forum can be. My girlfriend, family, and friends can describe my physical appearance in great and compelling detail, the same cannot be said for god. They can also explain my psyche in less detail, yet still backed by more evidence than someone can do with a god. We as individuals can be described based on the senses and there is evidence abound regarding how our individual minds work. The same cannot be said for any gods'.

Coincidentally, theists would say God created himself, similar to the universe being created out of itself. We were all created, you could say our parents are the ones who created us, but we came from the universe, where nothing is created or destroyed just changed or manipulated. Time is an illusion which hides the true nature of the universe.

Something either always existed or something came from nothing, that is where we are at. Now we know some things exist, so is it not more logical to assume something we know exists defied logic, rather than something that defies logic defied logic?

It may seem random but everything can be calculated. As far as homosexuals, no one is born gay, you can argue with me all you want, but gay scientific researchers have been known to have found ZERO proof that people are born gay. No such thing as gay genetics or centers in the brain that conduce homosexual behavior. Would it be right to persecute homosexuals? Hell no, but they are wishfully thinking if they think they were made that way. If you disagree, prove me wrong, would be glad to listen, unless your just trying to be a smart a$$.

I haven't been following this thread all that closely, but this issue seems to be a moot point. Regardless of gays being born that way or choosing homosexuality, it does not affect their natural rights. The reason they are gay should be a non-issue.

[Sweetdeath]

I think i'm going to stop myself from posting in this particular thread. I don't want to be banned from this forum, because I love it too much.
Bicycle has said and sugsted hurtful things towards homosexuality. Even invaded my introduction thread, suggesting that i'm a lesbian by choice because of my rape at 14.

I'll be around elsewhere. Love ya, tank, magic pudding, fester, and think anarchy

-sweetdeath

[Whitney]

Even invaded my introduction thread, suggesting that i'm a lesbian by choice because of my rape at 14.

Sorry, I somehow didn't catch that.

Bicycle, due to your inability to approach the topic tactfully and apparent desire to bring up the topic just to troll people, you now have a special rule applied only to you that does not allow you to further discuss the topic of why people are gay until you ask and receive my permission (via pm).  If you ask why in the thread that will be a violation of your special rule.  You've already been banned once the next one is permanent.

[Sweetdeath]

No sweat, Whitney, you are a very approachable mod/admin.

I'm almost 26 years old, so I feel mature enough to walk away frim topics that bother me. I don't have any beef with the people in this forum though. I've actually felt happier since i've joined.  ^__^ 

[Whitney]

I've actually felt happier since i've joined.  ^__^ 

yay!

[Davin]

I think i'm going to stop myself from posting in this particular thread. I don't want to be banned from this forum, because I love it too much.

I will follow your example.