Consciousness terminology.

[DragonStorm]

Under science, what is the best term to use to describe consciousness, in the Enlightenment Sense?
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First, to define consciousness, using the description of human vision, contains the following properties:
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1) Spatial distribution of the perception (Holistic)
2) Multiparametered in light and hue (subtle properties)
3) Simultaneous (Holistic)
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Reductionist and Classical physics cannot account for the three properties, given that distributed matter cannot behave Holistically or carry subtle information.  Matter can have a structure that processes information biochemically and electronically in systems, but every particle is considered Independent, and does not contain hidden information in every particle.  For example, critics of Roger Penrose consciousness theories say that at body temperature, individual  wavefunctions cannot last long enough before interaction, lasting nanoseconds, to produce a holistic distributed system.
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However, in quantum entanglement between particles, a structured system processing information in feedback circulations, will contain distributed information in every particle, interrelated through mutual entanglement.  And, when measurements affect some entangled particles, they affect all other entangled particles, instantanelously as what occurs with individual particle wavefunctions, occuring infinitely faster than light.
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Consciousness has weakness as a word, because it can be used to describe a machine that passes all tests of complex stimuli and response in Skinner or Pavlov sense, but contains not any unit of perception with the three properties listed for human vision.  In philosophy terms, it is called a "Zombie Human", because it resembles human, but has no Holistic sensation, with only classical independent particle processing, and without any Holistic Sense.
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And the only other words of some relation, of Spirit and Soul, carry the religious connotations of those words.  Likewise, due to the intimate connection between the Holistic Sense of Perception, and the baseband structural material required to support the Holistic Sense of Perception, it is not a readily immortal or transferrable medium of "Consciousness".  For when the body is destroyed, the information contained in the mutual quantum entanglements would be destroyed with the body.  So religious terms of Spirit and Soul are incorrect, also, in Monotheist-Christian, "Metatheist"-Buddhist, Polytheist-Hindu, for example.  The closest term, Human Spirit, even fails, due to the problem that it can refer to a "Zombie Human" that appears to have a human spirit, but is purely Reductionist Classical.
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And, given the inability to measure subtle statistical entanglement data, places the property far beyond material science to name the unnamed propery term.

[Tank]

Hmmmmm, I well, Ummmm.

[xSilverPhinx]

All I can say on this subject is ?

[Stevil]

Well, that sums it all, especially with regards to the Enlightenment sense.
I feel much enlightened now  ???

Given my computing background, I would liken consciousness to a long running process. Having short term memory, long term persistence store, ability to recognise patterns (hence associate related data into informational constructs), ability to process information and derive knowledge.

Enlightenment = derived knowledge, yes?

[xSilverPhinx]

Is consciousness really defined in the holistic sense, or is there just an illusion it being holistic?

[The Magic Pudding]

Careful with this one.
Opens with such a post and leaves you feeling like this

Then steals your wallet.

[DragonStorm]

Well, that sums it all, especially with regards to the Enlightenment sense.
I feel much enlightened now  ???

Given my computing background, I would liken consciousness to a long running process. Having short term memory, long term persistence store, ability to recognise patterns (hence associate related data into informational constructs), ability to process information and derive knowledge.

Enlightenment = derived knowledge, yes?

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If doubting enlightenment, take some time to meditate on it.  Maybe errors in the position will reveal itself, or the solid nature of the points made.
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Short term memory is one problem resolving Coherent Quantum Consciousness.  That is one reason why the very young see lower resolution, and as time goes on, the auto-coherence improves, in studies of children's vision, first seeing coarse light and dark, then seeing black and white patterns, then seeing colors, then seeing clearly, with time.  Similar studies show plasticity in organic bodies, like tests using inverting glasses, for example, that become natural over weeks, and when removed, normal viewing seems odd for a little while.
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Although keys, "Consciousness Spirit" cannot be fully described by [a long running process. Having short term memory, long term persistence store, ability to recognise patterns (hence associate related data into informational constructs), ability to process information and derive knowledge] because it only captures some of the truth.  A solid state computer can do the same thing, but may or may not acquire coherent "Computer Spirit", due to its rigid structure, and specific patterns of computation, fixed clock rate, power conservation cycling, and so forth.  Or many animals and plants, with small and simple structured biological forms that are closely related to pure biochemistry, may operate their entire life in a state where "Biological Spirit" is just a mass of static, without coherence, like a sleeping zombie thing, being taken advantage of by racist biological drive, leading to their being eaten by faster similarly mindless animals, or natural death, not much different from a rock being broken.  Likewise, a "Computer Spirit" can be programmed to say it has Spirit as well as its Zombie Computational Status, and be lying, or a primate in monkey see monkey do Darwinain Racist Survival can say in sign language it has "Animal Spirit" but not understand a word that it is saying, but does law go out and give the monkey citizenship.  And what point is citizenship for a robotic or zombie processing entity that will go and steal your wallet, fuck with everything one cares about, and laugh like a monkey, and lie about it in secret places with other Darwinian Racists?
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So, to be precise, Enlightenment = Acquired Knowledge plus Good Spirit plus a sense of Good Continuity, all regardless of what God may dictate of an Intelligently Designed Prison Planet placed under Universal Death Sentence and tortures and trials to try to prove His Creation's Love, and Death used to garner your Free Will worship of Him in unconditional love ... love God unconditionally or else, as God can destroy your soul.  Maybe that is closer to Enlightenment in a world of humans that is also like animals playing such a God, in eye for eye and tooth for tooth Darwinian Racisms, not teaching, hiding secrets, beating children of all ages, stealing wallets without just wars, and calling it Scientific Pavlovian God or Humanist or Nature Training, in a guilty cosmos of imperfection arising from claimed perfections.

[Whitney]

DragonStorm...why don't you tell us a bit about yourself and save the philosophy stuff for after you've gotten to know the other members pursing your first 50 posts.

[The Black Jester]

DragonStorm...why don't you tell us a bit about yourself and save the philosophy stuff for after you've gotten to know the other members pursing your first 50 posts.

Excellent...excellent suggestion, Whitney. 

Once you have achieved your first 50, DragonStorm, there is a lovely place called the "Philosophy" section where I, for one, will be glad to engage you over the issue of Consciousness and its place in nature.  People will be much more interested in having a dialogue with you once they know a bit about who you are, what you believe (in a more general sense), and what your personality (at least your on-line personality) may be like (although we get a fair idea if this is how you introduce yourself).

In any case, most of what you've written here is, to be polite, completely unintelligible.  Seriously, it's as if you'd piled the combined efforts of the Penrose/Hammeroff team along with some of Deepak Chopra's woo-ier essays together in a blender and hit the setting marked "Word Salad."  How stoned, exactly, are you? 

In general in philosophical discussions I prefer to operate by the "Principle of Generosity" in interpretation: it is far more likely that I've misunderstood you, than that your ideas are incoherent. 

However...in this case? I think I can safely say...it's you, not me.

Seriously, seriously: I look forward to clarifying some of your ideas with you.  The Philosophy of Consciousness is something of a hobby of mine, about which most around here could give the proverbial shit.  If I can sift through some of your verbiage and come to an understanding of exactly what your ideas are, I think we can have an 'enlightening' discussion. 

But first, for you: hit the 50. 

Some questions to get you started...: who the F' are you?  What's your background? How old are you?  Gender?  Beliefs? Family life?  You know...small talk.  You don't get in our Philosophical Pants without it.

[McQ]

Welcome and ditto to what Whitney and TheBlackJester said.

Oh, and I love this:
You don't get in our Philosophical pants without it.

[Stevil]

With regards to informational value I could summarise your last post into two reasonably concise sentences.

...I am afraid if a third post is this long and waffley my attention span will have reached its limit with you.


Here is a question that might test your ability to be concise and to the point.
What is you favorite TV show?

[xSilverPhinx]

In any case, most of what you've written here is, to be polite, completely unintelligible.

Good to see that others think so.  ???

MagicPudding, have you been having any weird dreams lately?

[Maria]

Nice intro. Hello to you too.
Welcome to HAF.

[Willow]

Self awareness, cognition or simply the mind.
psychology head on.
Willow.

[OldGit]

However, in quantum entanglement between particles, a structured system processing information in feedback circulations, will contain distributed information in every particle, interrelated through mutual entanglement.  And, when measurements affect some entangled particles, they affect all other entangled particles, instantanelously as what occurs with individual particle wavefunctions, occuring infinitely faster than light.

Yes - we had one of those, but the wheels fell off.