Bin Laden dead!

[AnimatedDirt]

I can only hope that this is laced with facetiousness.

Anyway, I'm hoping you were being sarcastic.

It has nothing to do with the body being buried at sea, but rather the person of OBL being given the respect he (OBL) neglected to give thousands of others, including his own.  It is evident to me that the person in office not only understands the importance of a proper Muslim burial, but empathizes with "his brother".  OBL should have gotten the same burial the average person gets...bodily burial or cremation...probably cremation.

[Whitney]

Muslim Burial according to about.com:

The deceased is then taken to the cemetery for burial (al-dafin). While all members of the community attend the funeral prayers, only the men of the community accompany the body to the gravesite. It is preferred for a Muslim to be buried where he or she died, and not be transported to another location or country (which may cause delays or require embalming the body). If available, a cemetery (or section of one) set aside for Muslims is preferred. The deceased is laid in the grave (without a coffin if permitted by local law) on his or her right side, facing Mecca. At the gravesite, it is discouraged for people to erect tombstones, elaborate markers, or put flowers or other momentos. Rather, one should humbly remember Allah and His mercy, and pray for the deceased.

http://islam.about.com/cs/elderly/a/funerals.htm

I don't see how a sea burial would be traditionally Muslim as it does not fit the requirements of being where the person died or of facing mecca. 

There is also this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382828/Osama-bin-Laden-Why-given-traditional-Islamic-burial.html

Which explains why both sides are pissed about the way he was buried...the US side being pissed that he was buried at all and the Muslim side being pissed that he wasn't buried properly.

[Whitney]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
— Martin Luther King Jr.

[fester30]

The sea burial was apparently their only choice.  CNN reported this morning that there wasn't a single country that wanted Bin Laden's remains.

[Asmodean]

I think it's bad news.

If I were Al Quaida, I'd have a proper chain of command. And if the general got killed, a new man would step in and fill the void. How do we know the new man not to be more ruthless and competent than the old one..? Time will tell. But me, I'm betting that something is gonna blow up soon enough.

[Will]

I'm not really okay with any of this.

First off, Osama bin Laden was incredibly successful in his attack, not just in the physical devastation at Ground Zero and the Pentagon, but in that our country has basically imploded since then. We allowed ourselves to give into fear, which meant committing to unnecessary wars, curtailing freedom, and basically starting to rot internally a la Rome. How many people have died in Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Yemen? How many people are being held without due process in military prisons all over the world? How many phone conversations and emails have been simply turned over to the government, which in turn granted telecoms retroactive immunity? It's almost too much to even think about.

In addition, Osama bin Laden allegedly himself benefited from CIA training. We (he and the United States) were on the same side in Afghanistan when the mujahadin (sp?) defeated the Soviet Union. He was anti-communist and anti-atheist back then. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, Saudi Arabia asked the United States for help instead of bin Laden, and he took that very personally. He decided that Western influence and power in the area was just as dangerous as Soviet power had once been, and he took his Saudi royal money and started to plan terrorist attacks.

Finally, after evading the United States for nearly a decade, he ends up getting shot through the head and just dropped into the ocean. No trial, no sentencing, no extracting intelligence. I'm not even sure it's justice at this point.

The sad part is that his death isn't really going to mean anything significant. We're not leaving Iraq or Afghanistan. We're not releasing all of our prisoners at Guantanamo or anywhere else. We're still undoubtedly being spied on. People all over the United States will be sexually assaulted at airports.

But I guess this victory wasn't for people like me. I'm bitter and tired from this decade of fear and hate. I've never been nationalistic or patriotic, as I see them as irrational biases. If people can enjoy this, they should, I guess.

[Asmodean]

But I guess this victory wasn't for people like me. I'm bitter and tired from this decade of fear and hate. I've never been nationalistic or patriotic, as I see them as irrational biases. If people can enjoy this, they should, I guess.

Me, I think those who can see this mess as a victory should have their 15 minutes of glee... However, where are we at once the 15 minutes are up?

I think you have a valid point on that. I also think that countries which have not experienced acts of terror within their borders may fall victim to vengeance for the death of bin Laden, which in turn was little more than an act of vengeance for the deaths he was a direct or otherwise part of, which in turn was... You see where it goes, yes? For what can war, but endless war still breed?

Good post, Will. A kudo to you for that.

[Recusant]

It has nothing to do with the body being buried at sea, but rather the person of OBL being given the respect he (OBL) neglected to give thousands of others, including his own.  It is evident to me that the person in office not only understands the importance of a proper Muslim burial, but empathizes with "his brother".  OBL should have gotten the same burial the average person gets...bodily burial or cremation...probably cremation.

Wow, are you serious?  You're implying that President Obama is a Muslim?  Get a grip, man. 

As for the sea burial: The Muslim tradition is that sea burial is only used when a person dies at sea, and the vessel is too far from land to get them into the ground within the prescribed time.  So this way of disposing of bin Laden was not really what somebody who "empathized with 'his brother'" would do.  There was a good reason beyond what has already been mentioned that the dirt bag wasn't buried on land; there would be the possibility that his grave could become a shrine for extremists. Even if they didn't know where it was, somebody could just say they had discovered it, and so set up a place to venerate bin Laden. To a certain extent (quick burial) Muslim custom was followed, probably to show that the US is not at war with Islam, but as Whitney and others have pointed out, sea burial really doesn't please Muslims.

If I understand your post correctly, and you're serious, I'm going to have to re-evaluate my opinion regarding the level of delusion you suffer under.  If I misunderstood, I apologize.  If you're not serious, then your trolling chops have improved considerably.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think it's bad news.

If I were Al Quaida, I'd have a proper chain of command. And if the general got killed, a new man would step in and fill the void. How do we know the new man not to be more ruthless and competent than the old one..? Time will tell. But me, I'm betting that something is gonna blow up soon enough.

I doubt that bin Laden was all that active in directing al-Qaeda in the last few years. The second in command, al-Zawahri, and others have most likely been calling the shots.

Yes, I'm sure that what's left of al-Qaeda will at least attempt to make a show of force.  What do you think the US should have done?  Kill the bastard and keep it quiet? It's not like that would have made any difference in regards to a possible reaction from al-Qaeda. The operation was a "dead or alive" deal.  If it had been possible to without exposing the operatives to danger, they were to capture bin Laden, but there was no way he was going to get away. Capture or death, either way it would have had an effect on al-Qaeda.  President Obama said that he would make it a priority to get bin Laden, and followed through.  I don't see an upside to having found him, just let him stay in his compound and possibly escape.

[karadan]

What do you all think?  Is it okay to celebrate such a death, even if, like me, you are against the death penalty?  I'm jumping up and down here.  I'm very against the death penalty yet I feel like celebrating.  Is there something horribly wrong with me?

I did a little cheer inside when i heard the news. A few people are saying you should never celebrate the death of someone (on other forums) but i have to disagree. Bin Laden deleted his right to be labelled 'human' years ago and therefore, his death should be celebrated.

[fester30]

I'm really enjoying the different points of view here.  I do agree that some other a-hole will take Bin Laden's place, but it'll be difficult for the next a-hole to have the same impact.  It's going to be hard to find such a seasoned war hero with serious extremist terrorist street cred that Bin Laden had.  We will continue to wage the war in Afghanistan, unfortunately, something that didn't work out for any other conqueror in history.  While the Taliban used to lead that country, even they didn't have control over all the areas.

As for the President being a Muslim, the evidence just isn't there.  I'm not saying he isn't, but it's just impossible to know what goes on inside someone else's head for certain.  All we can do is take someone at their words and actions.  I saw a TV interview of one of the Tea Party members at a rally.  The reporter asked the lady about the President.  She said that you can't go to a church for 20 years and not believe in what the preacher is preaching.  The reporter then pointed out that it's a Christian church, so the lady must be saying Obama is a Christian.  The lady backpedaled and said of course not, he's a Muslim.  If I can find the Youtube clip again I'll post it.  I saw the clip just randomly going around Youtube videos.

[KDbeads]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42864812/ns/technology_and_science-science/from/toolbar/?gt1=43001

And for those who think Obama is a muslim....  How often do we see him drop facing Meca for prayer during his public venues that happen to coincide with prayer times?  Being a muslim in heritage is not being a muslim in religion.  Just thought I'd throw that our since the community I live with wouldn't understand that concept.  It's like if I went to an islamic country, they'd probably refer to me as christian or some such when I myself am not, parents were but not me.

[Whitney]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42864812/ns/technology_and_science-science/from/toolbar/?gt1=43001

And for those who think Obama is a muslim....  How often do we see him drop facing Meca for prayer during his public venues that happen to coincide with prayer times?  Being a muslim in heritage is not being a muslim in religion.  Just thought I'd throw that our since the community I live with wouldn't understand that concept.  It's like if I went to an islamic country, they'd probably refer to me as christian or some such when I myself am not, parents were but not me.

Even by heritage that would only make him half.  Not to mention that I've heard rumors that his mom was some type of pagan/spiritualist and his dad was possibly atheist.  Which leads me to think that religion just didn't play a role in his young life.  But like other American leaders as he went further in his attempts to organize communities he realized that teaming up with the churches was the most effective means of getting the community on board with his ideas.  Not to mention that a person who doesn't care for or against religion marrying a Christian tends to make them convert to Christianity.

[hismikeness]

no extracting intelligence

Reports I've read state that many computers and documents were collected from the scene and are being delivered to the CIA for intelligence gathering.

As for extracting info from him, I doubt he would talk much without some serious intervention from Jack Bauer. 

[hismikeness]

No trial, no sentencing

Here's a very interesting set of 5 questions had OBL been taken alive, regarding the trial that would have taken place.

[McQ]

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
— Martin Luther King Jr.

Seems many of us were faked out by this non-MLK MLK quote. The story of how it came to be:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/anatomy-of-a-fake-quotation/238257/