Atheists in the military FINALLY getting organized

[terranus]

I hope this spreads to the Air Force. I'm a complete outsider in my unit. Actually get scrutinized quite a bit for my secular views. But god forbid I make fun of another airman's "protected" religious views.

The cliche notwithstanding, there are atheists in foxholes. In fact, atheists, agnostics, humanists and other assorted skeptics from the Army's Fort Bragg have formed an organization in a pioneering effort to win recognition and ensure fair treatment for nonbelievers in the overwhelmingly Christian U.S. military.

Here's the LINK to the rest of the article.

[Tank]

Interesting article. I would think that the military mind would value in-group behaviour in all its forms and a common 'faith' would be seen as and in-group of the first order.

[fester30]

Interesting article. I would think that the military mind would value in-group behaviour in all its forms and a common 'faith' would be seen as and in-group of the first order.

The military is less Christian than ever, based on actual percentages (I've seen somewhere that we're almost one quarter non-religious).  However, the Air Force is more Christian than ever based on the influence Christianity and Christians have on it.  There is a lot of indoctrination here.  Sundays in basic training I remember we had a choice... stay at the barracks and work sweeping and mopping floors and scrubbing grout with toothbrushes, or go to church.  There were a few people that I knew that either weren't religious or were Wiccan that went to the Christian services just to get out of cleaning for a few hours.

The invocation, or prayer, is a part of most official ceremonies.  Change of commands, Memorial Day, etc.  They aren't supposed to close a prayer in Jesus' name, but they do.  IMO they shouldn't even have an invocation to begin with.  I was a Christian until about 3 months ago, so I haven't talked to a chaplain about being careful not to violate the law, but their prayers at official functions are not supposed to be sectarian in nature (of course, Congress and the Dept of Defense mean religiously sectarian... cannot favor Christianity over Islam, etc., but just be a generic prayer to God).  

I just sat through a retirement ceremony where the retiree used the opportunity when he was able to give his retirement speech to give a Christian sermon to everybody in attendance.  25 years of military service earns a ton of respect in my mind, but doesn't earn my respectful silence at sitting through a sermon.  I got up and left the room quietly, then got in a little argument with a coworker about it.

Most days at the office religion doesn't come up.  Every once in a while someone talks about a news story they read about where some atheist is suing to get rid of "under God" from the pledge and how they don't respect American history.  That conversation ends quickly when I point out that "under God" wasn't officially added until 1954.  You wouldn't believe how many people actually think that "In God We Trust" was always the national motto back to our founding fathers and the revolutionaries.  Most don't believe me when I tell them that it was "E Pluribus Unum" until 1954, and are shocked when they it and find out I'm right.

Most of the Air Force members I encounter get their daily dose of Fox News and keep the blinders on for any other ideas.  Since I've only been atheist for three months, I don't know if it will affect my career.  We'll see.  I have a spotless history of stellar service as evidenced by my awards, performance reports, and quick promotions, so if someone tries to play with my career for it they'll have a harder time.

[Tank]

There was a character afdave at Richard Dawkins Forum. A complete fruit cake and absolutly barking mad IDiot YEC. He was a bona fide Air Force pilot. I wouldn't trust the guy to be able to walk in a straight line without assistance and the US government gave him an F15 FFS!

I hope there are no repercussion on your careerer. But it will be interesting to hear how things go for you as you will be in the perfect position to recognise any changes in attitudes towards you.

[terranus]

stay at the barracks and work sweeping and mopping floors and scrubbing grout with toothbrushes, or go to church.

Yep. Guess what I did? I hid out in the laundry room,

Edit:

I have a spotless history of stellar service as evidenced by my awards, performance reports, and quick promotions

Me too. Made E-4 in less than 2 years. Still hasn't stopped the fundies in my unit from harassing me about my beliefs every time religion is brought up.

[fester30]

stay at the barracks and work sweeping and mopping floors and scrubbing grout with toothbrushes, or go to church.

Yep. Guess what I did? I hid out in the laundry room,

Edit:

I have a spotless history of stellar service as evidenced by my awards, performance reports, and quick promotions

Me too. Made E-4 in less than 2 years. Still hasn't stopped the fundies in my unit from harassing me about my beliefs every time religion is brought up.

I see you're in the panhandle.  My wife is hoping I PCS to one of those bases.  I had a TDY to Eglin two years ago, and took her with me.

[Will]

terranus, would you mind talking a bit about your experiences as an atheist in the Air Force? I'd really like to know more. Thanks!

[terranus]

I see you're in the panhandle. My wife is hoping I PCS to one of those bases. I had a TDY to Eglin two years ago, and took her with me.

Technically I'm stationed at Eglin, although in reality I'm at Duke Field which is an auxillary field about 30 miles north of Eglin Main in the middle of nowhere. Eglin's alright, but if you're looking to PCS down here, I'd recommend Hurlburt or Tyndall over Eglin. They have much better/newer facilities, and they get more $$ to play with.

terranus, would you mind talking a bit about your experiences as an atheist in the Air Force? I'd really like to know more. Thanks!

Sure, although I must point out that technically I'm not a full-fledged strong atheist. I'm an agnostic, with some atheistic leanings.

At any rate, my first memorably military experiences relating to my non-religious views began in BMT. Some of my flightmates always asked me why I never went to church with them on Sunday, and at first I just said "well someone's got to stay behind and clean/do laundry." But after they went to my TI and requested that other people be designated to stay behind so I could go to church with them - I had to let them and my TI know the truth - that I was an agnostic and had no wish to attend a service of any kind. That earned me some pretty funny looks, especially from my TI. After that a lot of my more religious flightmates who I thought were my friends became a lot more distant towards me. Towards the end of BMT, the age old joke of there being no atheists in foxholes had been thrown around quite a bit whenever my name was mentioned. As I wasn't trying to stir up any trouble I let it slide, but I was quite offended by their insults and overall rudeness. I'm one of the few people in my BMT flight who doesn't keep in regular contact with our TI, as he showed little to no interest in my well-being after my secular forthcoming.

Will continue this in a bit...dinner time!

[Newtonyd]

At any rate, my first memorably military experiences relating to my non-religious views began in BMT. Some of my flightmates always asked me why I never went to church with them on Sunday, and at first I just said "well someone's got to stay behind and clean/do laundry." But after they went to my TI and requested that other people be designated to stay behind so I could go to church with them - I had to let them and my TI know the truth - that I was an agnostic and had no wish to attend a service of any kind. That earned me some pretty funny looks, especially from my TI. After that a lot of my more religious flightmates who I thought were my friends became a lot more distant towards me. Towards the end of BMT, the age old joke of there being no atheists in foxholes had been thrown around quite a bit whenever my name was mentioned. As I wasn't trying to stir up any trouble I let it slide, but I was quite offended by their insults and overall rudeness. I'm one of the few people in my BMT flight who doesn't keep in regular contact with our TI, as he showed little to no interest in my well-being after my secular forthcoming.

Ahoy, I'm curious about your experiences myself but don't really know the military terms. What does BMT and TI stand for?

Also, did any of them seem to understand the difference between atheist and agnostic?

[fester30]

At any rate, my first memorably military experiences relating to my non-religious views began in BMT. Some of my flightmates always asked me why I never went to church with them on Sunday, and at first I just said "well someone's got to stay behind and clean/do laundry." But after they went to my TI and requested that other people be designated to stay behind so I could go to church with them - I had to let them and my TI know the truth - that I was an agnostic and had no wish to attend a service of any kind. That earned me some pretty funny looks, especially from my TI. After that a lot of my more religious flightmates who I thought were my friends became a lot more distant towards me. Towards the end of BMT, the age old joke of there being no atheists in foxholes had been thrown around quite a bit whenever my name was mentioned. As I wasn't trying to stir up any trouble I let it slide, but I was quite offended by their insults and overall rudeness. I'm one of the few people in my BMT flight who doesn't keep in regular contact with our TI, as he showed little to no interest in my well-being after my secular forthcoming.

Ahoy, I'm curious about your experiences myself but don't really know the military terms. What does BMT and TI stand for?

Also, did any of them seem to understand the difference between atheist and agnostic?

BMT = Basic Military Training (boot camp)
TI = Training Instructor (wearing the smokey bear hat yelling at us telling us to do pushups all the time)

Just like most theists who don't bother to educate themselves on anything different, they think atheists are evil and agnostics are just atheists who don't want to admit being atheist because agnostic doesn't sound as bad.

I haven't yet had to deal with near as much direct personal resistance or discrimination as many military atheists, because I just deconverted a few months ago.  The people I work with all have known me for a long time, so they aren't judging me on the atheist label, but rather on the decent, kind man that they've known.  If anything, their points of view on the world have expanded, so I'm happy for that.  I have had my eyes opened to how much the Christians run this place, and am seeing the other side of the coin now that I don't believe in God as I used to.  I didn't used to understand what the big deal was in just standing there silently during a prayer in an official ceremony, or just saying the pledge even if under God doesn't mean anything to you.  I realize now how big of a deal all that is, especially considering that the way Christianity is ingrained into the Air Force makes it obvious that the door is wide open for the possibility of discrimination.  I know homosexuals will have an uphill battle here, unfortunately.  I'll do all I can to fight with them.