I no longer believe in God, what's wrong with me doc?

[Cosmo]

Hi,

Let me preface this post by stating that I am baffled by the power of the brain. The reason for this statement will become more apparent as you progress through my testimony. I am 23 years old, and I have visited three continents, and lived in six countries. I have had a scientific french education where biology, philosophy physics, math etc... are taught. I got my college degree in computer science in America. I believe that science not only explains a lot of things (from evolution to the big bang), but also lays out the foundation for a type of thinking that I embrace. I therefore consider myself (and always have) a critical thinker. I have always looked at society as a super set of the natural world where each relationship between humans can be explained at a biological level. All morals for instance can be derived from the biological need to live in group thereby increasing our chances of survival etc... And yet, until very recently, I was a Muslim. And this is quite surprising in light of all the YouTube videos that I have recently started to watch. Indeed, most believers seem to have used religion as a way to fill their lack of understanding of the world. But I personally had no real problem taking science as a way to explain the world. What about the Koran you might ask? Well, it was my belief that God really transcended religion, and I was Muslim more out of tradition than true belief. In fact, and we will all agree, it is very easy to disproof any religious book. Today I was talking to a friend of mine who was describing to me the epic battle the "righteous ones" will lead in heaven against monsters. Yesterday another friend reminded me that God send his unique son to be killed, as it was apparently the only way to forgive our sins. I was never able to understand why Muslims could only pray in Arabic, and why we were not allowed to eat pork. I mean... no need for further examples. To me, religion always was a joke. However, everywhere I would look, every fantastic scientific fact I would marvel at, would lead me to tell myself: "God really is a brilliant architect". I would ask in my prayers for God to help me and to protect my family. You see, for me religion and God always were separated. I could look at religion, practice it, and maintains that it was noting but a social tradition, and then read about DNA, supernovas, neurons, neutrinos, and think: "Good job God!". I recently found out that I was suffering from a serious case of compartmentalization (as diagnosed by Dr Dawkins).

The lost of belief in God was both sudden, and violently painful. I woke up one morning with the abject, and frightening idea that there was no God. I remember feeling my body shaking, as I tried to make my way to the bathroom. I was an addict in need for his fix of blissful ignorance. I could not look at myself in the mirror for it would cause violent outbursts of anxiety. That day I had to get out of my office and take a walk, I did not understand what had gotten into me. I remember vividly thinking about my family, my fiance, myself and denying the idea that death, mine or their was the end. No afterlife? No ultimate forgiveness, and eternal happiness? Needless to say that my productivity had dropped quite dramatically. You see, I think that subconsciously I was in denial. The alternative to God and an immortal soul was just too scary, too miserable, too.... human, too real. Are we really nothing but biological machines? Is my consciousness simply a byproduct of a remarkably complex brain, engineered by millions of years of evolution? Is death, really the end of everything? And when I say everything, I really mean EVERYTHING. I can experience the whole universe around me only through my conscience. Therefore when it dies, the whole universe dies. The pain was just to real,and the implications to catastrophic. However slowly but surely, the denial phase faded away, living the ugly reality staring back at me in the mirror. Who was I, what was that stranger in the mirror, that being of flesh and bones whose short life will soon fade in the pages of history? I was Godless, soulless, and I thought, lifeless.

Here is a good place to go back to my initial statement about the power of the brain. The conscience is a pretty wonderful thing, it can stretch through time and space since it can synthesize a time that is not longer or hasn't been yet, and a place which it isn't anymore. It can "get out of its body" and allow us to look at ourselves, or better yet, put itself in the body of another human, sample their input from the world around them, and synthesize emotions, or thought for you to feel, or think. What I have just described, we do it all the time when we plan for the future, when we imagine life at the time of the Pharaohs, or when we sympathize with another human being in pain. However there is one thing that the conscience cannot do. It cannot synthesis a world where it doesn't exist. It would be like asking a camera to take a picture of a place where it cannot go. It simply can't. Therefore it is easy to make the mistake of thinking that our conscience is immortal. Indeed, the logical fallacy is the following: Since I cannot imagine a world where I don't exist, I must conclude that there is no such world, I am therefore immortal. That is exactly the mistake I had made. But then how come we (I am assuming that you are atheist dear reader) can imagine such world? Well, because we use critical thinking, neuroscience tells us more about the brain everyday. We also witness significant changes in people's personality when they undergo brain damage. All these things point to the idea that the conscience is not a standalone thing floating in space but rather a product of the brain, and very much bound to it indeed. Now that I look back at my religious past, and talk to believers, I think I understood something. The brain will let you choose whatever reality you want to see. Everything that reinforces your belief will be amplified, and everything that challenges it will be ignored. I remember that God was so real, to obvious to me, I could almost touch him. And now I realize that I was kept in a blessed ignorance by my brain simply because that state was somehow more conducive to my happiness. A happy human is more efficient at achieving its biological purpose. But it seems that one can lie to oneself for so long. It is funny because despite how good we are at exchanging ideas between each other, there is still an uncrossable barrier between humans. I can see in the eyes of my friends when I tell them that I do not believe in God the same pity I imagine they see in mine when they tell me that if I embrace Jesus I will go to heaven.

Anyways, here I am, a couple of months have passed as I discover my new self. I undergo phases of intense depression and phases of relative peacefulness. I must say that I do not feel the urge to go around telling believers that God is a delusion. I feel their struggle and can appreciate the pleasure of living in their matrix. I simply wish to be able to discuss with other people who shared my situation (and all others in fact). A lot of questions have arisen as you might expect, about the nature of the self, how to build my moral principals, how to live my life without a loving God to watch over me? How to look at the ones I love knowing that we will never see each other again in the end. I am sure that most of you have found answers to these questions and I am eager to hear about them. Until then, thank you for reading, writing this was a very cathartic exercise.

[Tank]

Hello Cosmos

That was a fascinating and detailed post. Have your read Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Her story is quite inspiring as a journey out from under the comfort blanket of the institutionalised superstition. Not dissimilar to yours by the look of it.

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

[Cosmo]

Hello Chris,

No, I haven't read that book, but of course now I will look into it.

Thank you for the pointer.

[februarystars]

Anyways, here I am, a couple of months have passed as I discover my new self. I undergo phases of intense depression and phases of relative peacefulness. I must say that I do not feel the urge to go around telling believers that God is a delusion. I feel their struggle and can appreciate the pleasure of living in their matrix. I simply wish to be able to discuss with other people who shared my situation (and all others in fact). A lot of questions have arisen as you might expect, about the nature of the self, how to build my moral principals, how to live my life without a loving God to watch over me? How to look at the ones I love knowing that we will never see each other again in the end. I am sure that most of you have found answers to these questions and I am eager to hear about them. Until then, thank you for reading, writing this was a very cathartic exercise.

Hi, welcome!

I actually had a very different experience in coming to terms with my atheism, but I can definitely sympathize with how you feel after the fact. At first, I felt like there was a void where religion used to be, but after a while I realized that what I thought was missing didn't need to be there in the first place. When you grow up Christian (I'm not sure about Muslim, but I imagine it's probably the same way) you are taught that there is only one answer â€" if you have it right, you win, if you have it wrong, you lose. Being able to break free of that mentality was a long process, but it's so liberating when you realize that you're free to interpret the meaning of life in a way that makes sense to you.

It's been 11 years since I "converted" and I still get bouts of depression when I start thinking about how when everything is over, nothing means anything (and I attribute a lot of this negative thinking to my interpretation of Camus' discussions on absurdity â€" discovering philosophy has been both good and bad for me on many levels). Over time, however, I see that these depressed periods always follow long periods where I don't get much social interaction or a healthy diet â€" unfortunately unavoidable sometimes when you're a college student â€" but as soon as I go out and see my friends, get some sunshine, and eat a good meal, I inevitably feel better and the depression goes away. It's not something I deduce logically, so I suppose it's my subconscious receiving signals of satisfaction and pleasure and telling my mind that there are plenty of things worth living for.

As to the issue morals, this is something that annoys me most about close-minded religious types, and I think many people on this board feel the same way. Those who follow a religion that has a moral code tend to think that anyone without religion must logically be without morals. It's really kind of insulting. Maybe the reason people follow a religion is because it has a moral code that correlates with their innate morals, and that's what causes them to think they are believing the right thing. With or without the god aspect, the morals are still there. In my opinion, religion actually skews and distorts morality for many. If it doesn't exactly fit with the code, then it must be God's Will or God's Retribution. This is something that I think the Wiccans got right where the Christians got it wrong: "An it harm none do what ye will."

I wish you the best in your rediscovery of life. I think you'll find that this is an opportunity to live more for this life instead of holding yourself back in the hopes that you'll be rewarded in the next. Hope to see you around!

Crystal

[Cosmo]

Crystal,

I see that you define yourself as a Rationalist. I hope that you will not mind, if I borrow that definition and apply it to myself.

Being able to break free of that mentality was a long process, but it's so liberating when you realize that you're free to interpret the meaning of life in a way that makes sense to you.

I agree, the meaning of life, although challenging it is accept, is a matter of interpretation. I find comfort in the idea that I am a product of an incredible process that started when a singularity began expending, thus generating time, space, and everything else. As a black hole doesn't need to ponder on the meaning of its existence (mostly because it is too busy crushing absolutely everything within its gravitational field), I don't inherently need to ask myself why I am here, but instead marvel at the fact that I simply am, against all the odds, for that matter. I believe understanding how we came into existence is a far more interesting and potentially fruitful endeavor than understanding why.

as soon as I go out and see my friends, get some sunshine, and eat a good meal, I inevitably feel better and the depression goes away.

Me too, it is funny how friends, sunshine, and good food, can cure depression. However, I know that such mental state is a part of life, and finding a way out of it has been very challenging for me, as I'm sure it's been for you.

With or without the god aspect, the morals are still there.

I have started to realize that pain, both mental and physical is at the center of human morals, it certainly is at the center of mine. The pain we deal is the currency on which the moral system is based. This is a simple biological fact that arises from the need for our species to live in communities. In fact the simple sentence: "One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated" sums it up. I realized, it is a biological code that transcends religion. Nevertheless, a lot of us do not obey by that rule, why should I? Moral is a tough one for me. But one thing is for certain, it is now clear that Religion neither invented not improved morals. I agree with what you said:

Maybe the reason people follow a religion is because it has a moral code that correlates with their innate morals, and that's what causes them to think they are believing the right thing

.

I wish you the best in your rediscovery of life. I think you'll find that this is an opportunity to live more for this life instead of holding yourself back in the hopes that you'll be rewarded in the next. Hope to see you around!

Thank you very much.

[februarystars]

I see that you define yourself as a Rationalist. I hope that you will not mind, if I borrow that definition and apply it to myself.

Sure, go ahead. Just know that the way I use it is in the very basic dictionary definition of the term ("someone who emphasizes observable facts and excludes metaphysical speculation about origins or ultimate causes"), and there's quite a lot of people who define it slightly differently or more in depth.

It's sort of my response to the theism/atheism conflict. I don't really like to call myself an atheist (it's just easier to do so most of the time) because the word translates as "without God." The idea that I don't have something that doesn't exist seems kind of absurd to me. I just like to flip it around and say I'm a rationalist â€" not "without" anything â€" whereas the religious are "Irrationalists," i.e. "without reason."

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome Cosmo!

So, you're another who's lived all around the world? Where have you resided?

I've lived in the U.S, South Africa, India and currently live in Brazil.

A lot of questions have arisen as you might expect, about the nature of the self, how to build my moral principals, how to live my life without a loving God to watch over me? How to look at the ones I love knowing that we will never see each other again in the end. I am sure that most of you have found answers to these questions and I am eager to hear about them

I never went through a deconversion process where I had to start over from scratch on these aspects, but I'd assume based on what others who did have said, it gets easier, and that at the end of it all it has led them to giving their lives greater value in light of the knowledge that it won't last forever. I wouldn't see an atheistic life as better or worse - it's just different in regards to existential questions.

[Cosmo]

Hi xSilverPhinx,

I have lived in Niger, Cameroon, France, Chad, the USA, Switzerland, Ireland, Mali. I would love to go to Brazil, India and South Africa.

I never went through a deconversion process where I had to start over from scratch on these aspects

As I progress through my conversion to Atheism (it doesn't sound right...) I am starting to realize that I am not starting from scratch. In fact, a lot of myself has remain unchanged. I felt as though I was completely destroyed, and that my inner self was in ruin. Although it was partially true, I still kept intact a lot of my life philosophies. I just need to progressively realize that I am not so different, and am, in fact, as likable as when I was a believer.

[proudfootz]

Nothing wrong, really.

Just a post-theism hangover.

[xSilverPhinx]

Hi xSilverPhinx,

I have lived in Niger, Cameroon, France, Chad, the USA, Switzerland, Ireland, Mali. I would love to go to Brazil, India and South Africa.

I never went through a deconversion process where I had to start over from scratch on these aspects

As I progress through my conversion to Atheism (it doesn't sound right...) I am starting to realize that I am not starting from scratch. In fact, a lot of myself has remain unchanged. I felt as though I was completely destroyed, and that my inner self was in ruin. Although it was partially true, I still kept intact a lot of my life philosophies. I just need to progressively realize that I am not so different, and am, in fact, as likable as when I was a believer.

If you take the time to think about it thoroughly, you'll realise that many of your life philosophies (doesn't really matter whether you were a Muslim, Christian or whatever) don't depend on a god in order to be true enough in your life or have practical benefits.

I personally like the Buddhist's view, that you don't need a god in order to reach "enlightenment". I don't believe in all the supernatural or metaphysical aspects of their philosophies, but I see the 'god is not necessary'  as a truth. If you think about your life in hindsight, do you think that there isn't a thing that you attributed to god that couldn't have been attributed to you or chance?

[Cosmo]

If you take the time to think about it thoroughly, you'll realise that many of your life philosophies (doesn't really matter whether you were a Muslim, Christian or whatever) don't depend on a god in order to be true enough in your life or have practical benefits.

Very true....

[terranus]

I am 23 years old, and I have visited three continents, and lived in six countries.

Jealous!

Bonvenon al la Forumo!
[spoiler:zktjjofe]Welcome to the Forum![/spoiler:zktjjofe]

[Cecilie]

I'm too lazy to read all of that right now, so I'm just gonna say welcome. Welcome.

[Tank]

I'm too lazy to read all of that right now, so I'm just gonna say welcome. Welcome.

Summary: Ex-Muslim, bright guy.

[Cosmo]

I'm too lazy to read all of that right now, so I'm just gonna say welcome. Welcome.

Thank you.

Summary: Ex-Muslim, bright guy.

Tank is only 50% correct on that one