Are you happy?

[Lost]

In light of some really tragic things that have happened in my life recently, I've been thinking a lot about atheism (hence my finding this forum) I used to be a very happy atheist, but am having trouble lately. I certainly see the appeal of having something to believe in now. So, I have a couple of questions for anyone that feels like answering them.

1. Are you happy?
2. Have you had to deal with the loss of anyone that you were really close to?
3. Have you ever wanted to believe in spirituality, life after death, etc...?

I lost my father, very suddenly, four years ago, and managed to deal with the reality of him being gone. But then I lost my husband last year, and am having a much harder time. Some days I really wish I were able to lie to myself, and make myself believe things that I feel are not true, just for that little bit of comfort. It makes it difficult when getting help and support from others as well. Everyone says things like "he's in a better place now", "he's watching over you", and "everything happens for a reason". I don't believe any of that, and I surely appreciate people trying to help, but it is just so difficult.

I know that my grief is fairly new, and my circumstances are unique, but I was just wondering how others have come to terms with the finality of losing someone.

The one benefit I've been able to keep in mind is, being an athiest, I realise that I am extremely lucky to have this one life that I've got,  and that I need to live it to it's fullest. On good days, that keeps me trying to make the best of things.

[McQ]

It's not easy for anyone to deal with the death of someone close. I believe that most people who say those things you've been hearing about a better place, and all, are simply reciting platitudes. Most don't know what else to say and they want you to not hurt, so they say that stuff.

I think it's crappy to say that kind of thing. I've challenged people on it when they've said it to me. "What's the name of the better place?"
"Where is it, exactly?"
"Are there actually streets paved with gold?"

The answers are stunning, from people saying they didn't know to things like you shouldn't question god. What a load of crap.

I'm sorry you lost your husband. I am not sure I could deal with the loss of my wife, so I commend you for being able to live each day and move ahead.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, as happy as I can be, or have ever been so far in life. Pretty content.
2. Unfortunately, yes. Both parents, a sibling in law, military comrades, and two close cousins.
3. Yes. Badly. But I just can't buy it.

Grew up catholic, went to lots of churches for twenty some years, was a born again believer, but it really was all just wishful thinking in the end.

So I'm much happier knowing that I have this one shot, and will live it fully, trying to make a life worthwhile and enjoyable.

[hismikeness]

1. Happiness... hmmm... I guess with certain things I am mostly happy, and with other things I waiver between happiness and unhappiness. Generally, I would say 65-70% happy.
2. I lost both grandmothers when I was young, and a friend in high school, but not really much else. Both grandfathers will probably pass away in the next decade, but my parents are still relatively healthy and young (55 and 52), so they should have a while still.
3. Yes, and still do, but I can't bring myself to believe again. It was hard enough to recognize I didn't believe any of it to try believing it again.

As to your situation, when others say that he is in a better place, perhaps what they mean is that he certainly isn't in pain anymore, doesn't have to worry anymore, and doesn't have to be bothered with the minutia of everyday life anymore, since he is, of course, no more. But... that doesn't make it any easier for you. I've always believed that people who repeat those statements are intending to comfort you more than they are making a statement about where they believe him to be.

I'm sorry for your loss. Stay strong girl!

Mike

[terranus]

I've suffered from chronic depression since I was first diagnosed with it at 13, so I'm probably not the best person to give you advice.

But I can tell you this - I've been much happier since I found out the truth about religion, than when I was brainwashed with the threat of enternal hellfire beforehand. Believing in false deities that you know don't exist will only serve to harm your sanity.

I am sorry for your losses. I can't imagine the grief you must have gone through over the past few years. But - it is my experience that you alone are responsible for making yourself happy. In other words, happiness is what you make of it. Yes, other people/things can help make you happy, but in the end, it's up to you to determine if you are truly happy or not. And if you find out that you're not - then obviously you have to do something about it. Unfortunately, that part is easier said than done.

My Dad used to tell me that the most important thing in life is having a good time. Probably the wisest words anyone has ever spoken to me. The cold, hard truth is that we have a limited amount of time here on this planet, and after that - there is nothing else. So, might as well enjoy it the best we possibly can while we're here, right? Do what makes you happy, and to hell with what other people think about it.  

[Lost]

It's not easy for anyone to deal with the death of someone close. I believe that most people who say those things you've been hearing about a better place, and all, are simply reciting platitudes. Most don't know what else to say and they want you to not hurt, so they say that stuff.

I'm lucky that in my case they all mean well. I know that they just don't know what to say and think they are helping. Really, there is nothing that they could say that would help.

I'm sorry you lost your husband. I am not sure I could deal with the loss of my wife, so I commend you for being able to live each day and move ahead.

Thank you. Words can't express how difficult it is.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, as happy as I can be, or have ever been so far in life. Pretty content.
2. Unfortunately, yes. Both parents, a sibling in law, military comrades, and two close cousins.
3. Yes. Badly. But I just can't buy it.

Grew up catholic, went to lots of churches for twenty some years, was a born again believer, but it really was all just wishful thinking in the end.

So I'm much happier knowing that I have this one shot, and will live it fully, trying to make a life worthwhile and enjoyable.

I'm sorry for your losses as well. And thank you for answering the questions. I didn't grow up religious, so it is all new to me. I even went so far as to talk to a couple of mediums (supreme moments of weakness - totally regret spending the money), but that just further reinforced my atheism. Wishful thinking, I agree.

[Lost]

1. Happiness... hmmm... I guess with certain things I am mostly happy, and with other things I waiver between happiness and unhappiness. Generally, I would say 65-70% happy.
2. I lost both grandmothers when I was young, and a friend in high school, but not really much else. Both grandfathers will probably pass away in the next decade, but my parents are still relatively healthy and young (55 and 52), so they should have a while still.
3. Yes, and still do, but I can't bring myself to believe again. It was hard enough to recognize I didn't believe any of it to try believing it again.

As to your situation, when others say that he is in a better place, perhaps what they mean is that he certainly isn't in pain anymore, doesn't have to worry anymore, and doesn't have to be bothered with the minutia of everyday life anymore, since he is, of course, no more. But... that doesn't make it any easier for you. I've always believed that people who repeat those statements are intending to comfort you more than they are making a statement about where they believe him to be.

I'm sorry for your loss. Stay strong girl!

Mike

Thanks. And yes, most people just want to comfort. They just don't really think about what they are saying I think.

My mother in law is quite spiritual, and keeps getting emotional about birds flying overhead, or animals walking through her yard. It is so absurd, but it brings her comfort. The horrible thing is my standards are not even that high for me to change my mind right now. I actually prayed for a sign or something (I've never really prayed before, so maybe I did it wrong) and would have settled for a picture frame moving, lights going on or off, something, anything. So many people apparently experience hauntings, paranormal activity, etc... How can so many people lie to themselves? Some days I wish I could.

[Lost]

terranus, I am sorry for your struggles. There are so many things that are out of our control that it truly is up to each of us to do the best with what we can control. I was always really strong and rational, so could just reason my way out of any situation. I could make the best of anything, and see the good in all of it, however minute that good was. That is the part that I am having trouble with now. The good is getting harder to find, and even when I do, the bad is just so damned heavy it squashes it flat.

Your dad is definitely a wise man It seems time goes by quicker each year, and knowing just how short this life can be certainly helps keep me motivated. Thanks for your input.

[TheJackel]

If you believe in a material and naturalist point of view.. The people you love to whom have died will never be lost. They become bound to the ever emerging world around you. Their essence becomes the essence of other things and perhaps even other living things. Purpose in this sense is never lost, it's just ever changing However, I will always believe they are among us in some form or another. I guess that is all I require to remain happy :frown:

[Tank]

1. Are you happy?
Not always. I'm a gregarious team player and I don't like having an unstructured day which is what I'm suffering from. But whether I'm happy or not has little to do with being an atheist one way or the other really.

2. Have you had to deal with the loss of anyone that you were really close to?
My Father died of cancer two weeks after my 17th birthday in 1977. It took me over 30 years to understand how much that had effected me. Dad's aren't supposed to die when you're a kid. Neither are spouses supposed to die until you've had a life with them. I've been married since 1980 and I can't imagine what it would be like to without 'my other half'. The trouble is that I dealt with my Father's death very badly because I knew he was going to die for so long before he did. My Mum told me when I was 12 and in those days it really was a death sentence so although the initial growths were 'cured' the secondariness got him. But being a teenage boy I coped by building an emotional wall. My Mum died a year ago, but she was 86 and died in her sleep so no real impact at all.

3. Have you ever wanted to believe in spirituality, life after death, etc...?
No. I've always been a sceptic.

[The Magic Pudding]

I think feeling crap for a year or more after the loss of a loved one is pretty normal, afterlife or not.  I can't say I've experienced such a loss but people say the pain does ease eventually.

[ForTheLoveOfAll]

1. Are you happy?
2. Have you had to deal with the loss of anyone that you were really close to?
3. Have you ever wanted to believe in spirituality, life after death, etc...?

1: I am by far the happiest person I know, and this is in a town filled with fundamentalist Southern Baptist Christians. In a way, the realization that this life, this one form, this one chance, may be all that we have, makes everything all the more beautiful to me. Laughter comes easily, and I have more friends than I can count. No reason to be unhappy.

2: Yes, several times. But it doesn't bother me anymore. Death is inevitable. One thing we ALL have in common is that one day each and every one of us will die. And that's that. Sure, I miss them, but they live on in my memories, and if there is an afterlife of some sort, I hope they're having one hell of a party.

3: Yes, and I did, for years. In a way I still do. I don't really believe in death, just changing of form. No matter what happens, all that's going to happen to us is a breaking down. Sure, we may lose consciousness, but what makes us up, what makes up everything, will still be alive. One night I was outside looking up at the stars and I realized "Holy shit. That's me!" to which the stars responded "Yes, and I'm you!" Everything is made of the same basic thing. Religion will belittle you and tell you that you're worthless, while Science will say that we are the only known species with the marvelous abilities we have, and that we're made of the stars.

I'm apt to believe that our mind might go somewhere. That it MIGHT continue on in some form. That the energy in us, our consciousness, it doesn't cease, it just goes out. Can I prove this? No, not at all. I don't believe there is a god, or that if we can have an afterlife that it has to be "spiritual." It could still have a purely natural and scientific explanation that we just can't explain right now.

Swami Satchidinanda has been a huge inspiration to me, and I really like the way he describes death. Whether you're spiritual or not, I don't think anyone who met this man could deny that he really was a wonderful person.

[youtube:394comqq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoeU_XGJKGc[/youtube:394comqq]

Nothing really dies, but the form changes.

Alan Watts has some marvelous commentary on death, also. He was a Zen master, but he had a strange spiritual/Atheist leaning.

[youtube:394comqq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opn5iVaRyDU[/youtube:394comqq]

[Lost]

If you believe in a material and naturalist point of view.. The people you love to whom have died will never be lost. They become bound to the ever emerging world around you. Their essence becomes the essence of other things and perhaps even other living things. Purpose in this sense is never lost, it's just ever changing However, I will always believe they are among us in some form or another. I guess that is all I require to remain happy :frown:

Thank you. And yes, that does tend to be my belief of late.

But whether I'm happy or not has little to do with being an atheist one way or the other really.

Yes, I see that too. It never was an issue for me before, even with my doubts.

2. Have you had to deal with the loss of anyone that you were really close to?
My Father died of cancer two weeks after my 17th birthday in 1977. It took me over 30 years to understand how much that had effected me. Dad's aren't supposed to die when you're a kid. Neither are spouses supposed to die until you've had a life with them. I've been married since 1980 and I can't imagine what it would be like to without 'my other half'. The trouble is that I dealt with my Father's death very badly because I knew he was going to die for so long before he did. My Mum told me when I was 12 and in those days it really was a death sentence so although the initial growths were 'cured' the secondariness got him. But being a teenage boy I coped by building an emotional wall. My Mum died a year ago, but she was 86 and died in her sleep so no real impact at all.

I can't imagine knowing that far in advance. Both my father and my husband died suddenly and with no real warning. My father had cancer a few years before he died, but had beaten it and was in remission. He lived a very unhealthy lifestyle and had numerous health concerns as a result, so while it was sudden, the cause was not a shock. He was two months shy of his 60th birthday, so the loss is still quite horrible. My husbands death came without any warning and has been devestating. You are right, he was not supposed to go this young. I think that is what is complicating the issue. It is not just that he is gone and not waiting for me in some lovely spiritual paradise, it is the injustice of that loss. For him, for our son, and for me. I guess my unhappiness at the moment is more about the uncertainty of life, that it is finite (which we all know, but don't always have to deal with) and that there is no second chance.

[Lost]

Fortheloveof all, thanks for your response. I read a book by Deepak Chopra, Life After Death - the burden of proof, which dealt with similar ideas. That life is just one phase and death another. That even if our conciousness does not continue, that something of our essense (having a hard time finding the right words) will continue.

I feel that in the least, the material of me will continue on and become other things. It's whether or not our consiousness will survive that change. I don't think it will, but am still hopeful.

[TheJackel]

Fortheloveof all, thanks for your response. I read a book by Deepak Chopra, Life After Death - the burden of proof, which dealt with similar ideas. That life is just one phase and death another. That even if our conciousness does not continue, that something of our essense (having a hard time finding the right words) will continue.

I feel that in the least, the material of me will continue on and become other things. It's whether or not our consiousness will survive that change. I don't think it will, but am still hopeful.

Your welcome Consciousness is great, but I would think eternal consciousness would be hell..eventually

[LegendarySandwich]

1. No.
2. No.
3. Yes.