Life-Long Test or Trial

[DirtyLeo]

I was discussing about the purpose of life with a muslim friend of mine. I asked him a question but I didn't get a proper answer.

This life is supposed to be a test or trial. Trial set by an all-knowing and all-powerful god. Now at this point, it all stops making sense . As God is all-knowing, she already knows the result of such a trial. So why run it in the first place?

[ForTheLoveOfAll]

Because God, if he/she/it is real, is a sadistic, manipulative, malovelant bully, who enjoys watching his creations suffer in real time.

[terranus]

This begs the question, does your muslim friend believe in "fate" or "free-will"? And by all-knowing, are you sure he/she isn't meaning "all-knowing-after-the-fact"?

[skwurll]

Because God, if he/she/it is real, is a sadistic, manipulative, malovelant bully, who enjoys watching his creations suffer in real time.

There's nothing wrong with being a sadist if your victims are willing.

That said, religion doesn't exactly hold up to logic.

[xSilverPhinx]

That's what they tell themselves   God is good, god is love and exists everywhere but at the same time evil is where god is not...or some variation.  

They compartmentalize. They say that such things are above logic but that's just because they aren't (dont want to?) drawing the necessary links and conclusions that necessarily follow from their own assertions.

Pure wishful thinking if you ask me. They want to believe in some multiple personality type god who serves for every possible purpose spanning every possible event in their lives.

Apparently god also hates freaks that it created, as validated by a christian who has access to god's knowledge (in his own head, but he doesn't see it that way). Talk about merging with your imaginary friend...

[AreEl]

This life is supposed to be a test or trial. Trial set by an all-knowing and all-powerful god. Now at this point, it all stops making sense . As God is all-knowing, she already knows the result of such a trial. So why run it in the first place?

You are misinformed. Life is not a ''test'' or a ''trial'' to see if you are up to snuff.

Trials are for the Christian only and serve to strengthen faith. The definitive Bible quote on this subject is found in James 1:2-5.

[LegendarySandwich]

You are misinformed. Life is not a ''test'' or a ''trial'' to see if you are up to snuff.

That's your opinion, of course. Many Christians believe that this life is a trial.

[AnimatedDirt]

You are misinformed. Life is not a ''test'' or a ''trial'' to see if you are up to snuff.

That's your opinion, of course. Many Christians believe that this life is a trial.

Context, LegendarySandwich, context.  It's vital.  Life is a trial to those that are seemingly swimming against the current.  But don't confuse that with *your perceived meaning that God made it a trial.

It's not that God made life a trial, but that this life became a trial.  The Atheist might say that if God knew it would be, that God then designed it to be so.  If there is free will (free choice) then the outcome may be known to God, but the path is not designed by God.

[The Magic Pudding]

If there is free will (free choice) then the outcome may be known to God, but the path is not designed by God.

Well he should get out of the road then.

[AreEl]

You are misinformed. Life is not a ''test'' or a ''trial'' to see if you are up to snuff.

That's your opinion, of course. Many Christians believe that this life is a trial.

It isn't my opinion. It is what the Bible clearly says: trials are a means of strengthening a Christian's faith, period. That's all they are for; see James, chapter 1, verses 2-to-4 for confirmation. Trials have nothing to do with non-Christians. (Life itself is not a trial, although Christians and others may feel it is.)

Dr House/AnimatedDirt says it well:

You are misinformed. Life is not a ''test'' or a ''trial'' to see if you are up to snuff.

That's your opinion, of course. Many Christians believe that this life is a trial.

Context, LegendarySandwich, context. It's vital. Life is a trial to those that are seemingly swimming against the current. But don't confuse that with *your perceived meaning that God made it a trial.

It's not that God made life a trial, but that this life became a trial. The Atheist might say that if God knew it would be, that God then designed it to be so. If there is free will (free choice) then the outcome may be known to God, but the path is not designed by God.

[LegendarySandwich]

It isn't my opinion. It is what the Bible clearly says: trials are a means of strengthening a Christian's faith, period. That's all they are for; see James, chapter 1, verses 2-to-4 for confirmation. Trials have nothing to do with non-Christians. (Life itself is not a trial, although Christians and others may feel it is.)

The Bible can, and has, been interpreted in so many ways, that yes, it is opinion.

[Being_Brave]

(I'm not here to change minds, I just try to explain the thought process of people of faith without using all the bible references or a holy-rollin' attitude... here goes..)

Trials: My mom called it "creative parenting". If we wandered off in the store after she told us not to, she would keep an eye on us from around a corner where we couldn't see her. Just about the time we realized mom wasn't chasing after us this time, and started to freak out a little because we didn't see her, she would "find" us...lesson learned. It wasn't punishment, though at the time it seemed like the end of the world; it was a way of letting us make our own decisions and learning from our own mistakes in new situations. (Not making excuses for why people lose loved ones or suffer tragedy, just explaining that people of faith believe trials are meant to grow from.)

Omnipresence: Omnipresence is supposed to imply that God is in a state of timelessness. The reason given for His knowing what we are going to do is that he's seen it already...not that he traveled through time and came back, but that time passes in a different manner than here (makes me think of Einstein's twin paradox).  Another way to look at it is to think of seeing a video of an erupting volcano. The volcano had to have erupted for there to be footage of it. The idea is that even though God knows how it will end, it still has to happen so that he can "view the footage". It's not that he's magically psychic, it's that the time it takes for him to view it happening is different than how we percive time to be. (That's why you'll hear some creationists say that the biblical "day" might have been longer, because religion grants that time doesn't actually matter in Heaven). This is one of those things I won't pretend it doesn't take faith to accept  

[iSok]

Let me explain from the point of view from Islam, as you can I see I am a Muslim too.

The purpose of life within Islam: Spiritual growth towards God.
Within Islam, man in our reality is made of two components.
The soul (spiritual) and the body (matter).
The body is actually the place where the soul is placed in to experience the world.

Islam teaches that man should take care of both parts (the soul and the body).
Once man reaches the perfection of the body (enough food, shelter and no threats in the near future) he/she
should move on too the spiritual part (the soul).

I think if you want to maintain the body, you take.
If you want to maintain and grow your soul, you give.

So Islam teaches that once man has mainted his body in a reasonable way, his quest for happiness ends there.
For further source of happiness he should rather give. And this will make him happy in this life and the next (growing of the soul).

Let me give you an example:
If I have saved a lot of money for a flatscreen and I'm about to buy one. While walking to the store I see a homeless guy.
I have two options:

1. Buy the flatscreen (you take, materialistic aspect) or
2. I give my money to the homeless (you give, spiritual aspect).

Choosing for option 1 seems to make me more happy at first. But after a few days I will realise that the flatscreen is just a flatscreen.
So once again, I'll have to take something else to make myself more happy. To fill the empty void.

Choosing for option 2 doesn't seem to be a good one at first. But after giving, one is relieved. And you will never forget
the joy of the homeless when you handed him the money. Immediatly you are stimulated to give more to others.
I think when you choose for option 2, something inside you is growing.

It's of course a bit more complex, but I tried to make it more simple.
Evolution actually accepts this theory (altruism). Giving is better than taking.

So religion is not just about the next world. It's about the quest for happiness in this world
and the next. The message is: Do Good and you will experience Good.

Atheists often want to create a heaven on earth. But I think that is an illusion.
In a perfect world, man cannot exist.
Without the concept of giving, man will not be happy. (Science and Theology both agree on this theory)
In a perfect world, the concept of giving is no more, man will never allow that, so a perfect world cannot and will never exist in our reality.

For science the question is: How? and When? does the earth shake. Two fundamental questions.
For myself the first question is: Why? does the earth shake (answered by Religion), followed by How? and When? (both answered by Science).

Why? --> The Earth shakes because it makes us humans, it gives us the chance, the possibility to give and to take care of one and other.
              It unites us and it brings us together so we can find out how to avoid it next time.

This question is followed by How? and When?. Science both answers these question.
When researchers are looking for a medecine to treat cancer. Are they doing it just for the money or the reputation? Or is there more?
They give time and effort so man can defeat yet another challenge given by who I believe to be is God.
Once we have defeated cancer, we will see the rise of yet another challenge.
So we are stimulated to bring justice the world, by giving our time and our efforts. To face the evils in the world we cannot take but give.

So according to Islam: Life is a journey towards the illusional destination (perfection of the world) which does not exist. The important part for man, is the journey, NOT the destination.

Imam Al-Ghazali (a famous muslim philosopher from the 11th century): "We're all wayfarers, yet many of us do not know."

Qur'an - [5:35] Believers! Fear God and seek the means to come near to Him, and strive hard in His way; maybe you will attain true success.

[AreEl]

It isn't my opinion. It is what the Bible clearly says: trials are a means of strengthening a Christian's faith, period. That's all they are for; see James, chapter 1, verses 2-to-4 for confirmation. Trials have nothing to do with non-Christians. (Life itself is not a trial, although Christians and others may feel it is.)

The Bible can, and has, been interpreted in so many ways, that yes, it is opinion.

OK, then please point out those passages in the Bible that imply or specifically state that life itself is a trial. I need specific biblical passages, not the opinions of Christians you may know.

Good luck.

[LegendarySandwich]

OK, then please point out those passages in the Bible that imply or specifically state that life itself is a trial. I need specific biblical passages, not the opinions of Christians you may know.

Good luck.

No. That's not the point.