GOD isn't Made of Anything: Say the Theists

[TheJackel]

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/for ... #msg534398

Read the above conversation because it gets pretty hilarious in terms of Theist trying to argue that GOD isn't made of anything lol. o.O  Why do theists resort to intentional stupidity?

[Stevil]

Various quotes that I enjoyed reading (baffled me)

The term that is ambiguous here is "made of nothing". We need to be clear about what you mean by this and what a Theist means by this because I am certain that here is where the disconnect exists. For the Theist to say that God is made of nothing, does not mean what you think they mean. First,what the Theist means is that God is not made, not that he is not existent, not that there is no God, but simply that God is not made. He is not composed of parts, and he is uncaused and non-contingent. For this reason he is the sufficient reason for his own existence. This is a far cry from your undederstanding of the term, and you have yet to address this understanding. Second, by saying that God is not a thing, we are not saying that he is nothing in the term of non-existence. We are saying that he is not a thing, that he is not an object for us to analyze but absolute subject, the ultimate "I". Again, there is no suggestion here of non-existence, but rather of absolute existence.
Now God and non-existence are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum (Though God is even beyond this spectrum itself, but I am using this convention to demonstrate a point). On the one hand terms like like "thing" and "made" don't apply to God because he is absolute subsistent existence, beyond such limits. On the other hand "thing" and "made" don't apply to non-existence for completely different reasons, because non-existence is an entirely empty category. So the non-application of these terms to God and non-existence is for two entirely different reasons, and is NO way a univocal non-application. Thus we say of God that he is no-thing, or no given particular thing that we can analyze, because God is beyond such a category. When we say that non-existence is nothing that is  because it doesn't exist. Until you clarify the term "not made" and understand what we actually believe about God, you will not be able to even begin engaging us in a fruitful discussion, regardless of whether you agree with us or not.

It has already be ascribed to God that he is incomprehensible, so it is unsurprising that one can find apparent contradictions.

but in the end it is they who are the authority on God, not you, so that you really are obligated to accept their corrections to the definition

This next one really made me laugh, especially the last sentence

Because the First Cause is the First Cause, he is by nature not part of the system. Because, as I have demonstrated elsewhere, that he is simple and uncomposed, he is completely different than the beings in the system. Our position is not that the first cause is the base substance of the system. If that were the case, God would be a contingent limited being, and then would need a cause, making him not the first cause, but that is a contradiction. You are grasping at straws buddy.

[Dretlin]

Reminds me of a quote:

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."

Some of those people seem to see no difference!

[AnimatedDirt]

Reminds me of a quote:

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."

Some of those people seem to see no difference!

Isn't gravity invisible?  Isn't air invisible?  Thoughts are invisible...What else is invisible?  

[TheJackel]

Reminds me of a quote:

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."

Some of those people seem to see no difference!

Isn't gravity invisible?  Isn't air invisible?  Thoughts are invisible...What else is invisible?  lol. These theists really are either really dumb, or intentionally dumb lol

[Stevil]

I even tried to give them a compromise, but they insist it has to be utter nothing

It's not nothing Jackel, that would be rediculous.
Instead its not something, do you understand the difference. One, simply cannot admit that God is nothing. God just is.
God is soooo special, soooooo wonderful that people make up entirely new phrases that have never been used in a mere mortal way to describe any human.
God is not just all loving, God IS LOVE. An regardless that this makes no sense at all, it is just that you can't comprehend God. God is incomprehensible, God defies logic, defies existence.

God cannot simply be part of the Universe, bound to the laws that all matter and energy are bound to. Could you imagine God orbiting around a black hole, or maybe orbiting around the centre of our Universe, or maybe a collection of galaxies or even Universes orbiting around God. Of course if God had mass then God would be the most massive thing ever.

But God is not a mere thing, God is not bound by laws, God is much more powerful and impressive. God is beyond the sum of all things that exist. But we could never term this as God doesn't exist. Oh no. Although God is not bound to existence, for God transcends existence, Space and time.  God is that which does not merely Exist but at the same time God is not merely that which does not Exist.

Do you understand? You cannot put God into a box (a definition box), no matter how big that box is. Mere words cannot describe how magnificent and powerful that God is.

Does anyone feel like they are back and Kindergarden. My Dad's stronger than your dad!

[TheJackel]

I even tried to give them a compromise, but they insist it has to be utter nothing lol.

God is incomprehensible

Then you could never have a GOD.. Do you even know the definition of "incomprehensible". ? And of course the claim that nothing is something is incomprehensible! Nothing isn't anything at all! It's stupid people preaching sheer intentionally stupidity, and they know it. And that is the saddest part about it.

[karadan]

Well, that stands to reason seeing as god doesn't exist.

[ForTheLoveOfAll]

It's strange to me that so many people claim to have a relationship with, have full knowledge of, and know the mind of something they consider to be beyond comprehension. Isn't that sort of... self-contradictory?

Looks like god isn't so complicated after all.  

[penfold]

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33809.msg534398.html#msg534398

Read the above conversation because it gets pretty hilarious in terms of Theist trying to argue that GOD isn't made of anything . I even got this reply:

because he is utterly beyond existence or non-existence.

I dunno, there is depth in this line of thinking.

In Chinese Taoist philosophy such ideas come up all the time. Wang Bi once tried to describe the totality of things (Tao) as that which is without form (wu xing). He argued that form implies a limit, and limit requires differentiation. As the totality of things is limitless it contains all things and thus cannot be differentiated from any one thing.

Unfortunately for the Christians, Wang Bi does go on to point out that anything which has no form must also have no name (wu ming), as name (ming) requires form (xing). As the ancient Tao Te Ching puts it: "The Tao that can be described in language is not the constant Tao, the name that can be given is not the constant name". No chance for God.

So ease up on those theists. Just because their initial premise is wrong does not mean that what they say is devoid of interest.

[TheJackel]

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,33809.msg534398.html#msg534398

Read the above conversation because it gets pretty hilarious in terms of Theist trying to argue that GOD isn't made of anything :/ I do like your example though

[TheJackel]

No no no...you got it all wrong there.  Clearly God's existence is not like our existence.  So let's say God trans-exist, and we simply exist.  So therefore, God is also transcendant information.

[xSilverPhinx]

Reminds me of a quote:

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."

Some of those people seem to see no difference!

Isn't gravity invisible?  Isn't air invisible?  Thoughts are invisible...What else is invisible?  :hmm:

Where's invisible god?