The purpose of life

[Achronos]

Who has that sig for crazy shit Achronos has said, I think it could use some updates.

That would be LegendarySandwich: http://happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic. ... 105#p96219

"Today I observe that even with great matters, when someone asks, before he has even had the time to complete his question, we interrupt him and answer him. This shows that not only do we not seek enlightenment from the Grace of God, but we do not even judge with the reason God gave us. On the contrary, whatever our thoughts suggest to us, immediately, without hesitation, we trust it and consent to it, often with disastrous results.

"Almost all of us view thoughts as being something simple and natural, and that is why we naively trust them. However, we should neither trust them nor accept them.

"Thoughts are like airplanes flying in the air. If you ignore them, there is no problem. If you pay attention to them, you create an airport inside your head and permit them to land!"

I think he forgot the important part of the article he copied and pasted though...

"Live simply and without thinking too much, like a child with his father. Faith without too much thinking works wonders. The logical mind hinders the Grace of God and miracles. Practice patience without judging with the logical mind."

My guess is the reason why he prefers Orthodoxy is that it explicitly tells you not to think about it... just trust us... really.

You can read the rest here: http://www.pravmir.com/article_23.html.

Enjoy!

Yes I believe Elder Paisos has nailed what exactly is wrong with the world, hmm I do admit that I should have included the original link to my original posting. I don't agree that "just trust us" because that is very dangerous.

[superfes]

I don't agree that "just trust us" because that is very dangerous.

Think you missed something with that statement, I believe it should be read:

I don't agree that "just trust us" because that is very dangerous, unless you're talking about religion. It's not dangerous to blindly trust religion.

I'll let everybody else get back to arguing with you though, it's entertaining.  

[Achronos]

I don't agree that "just trust us" because that is very dangerous.

Think you missed something with that statement, I believe it should be read:

I don't agree that "just trust us" because that is very dangerous, unless you're talking about religion. It's not dangerous to blindly trust religion.

I'll let everybody else get back to arguing with you though, it's entertaining.  

LOL. If that was the case then we'd be having alot more Jim Jones'.

[Ultima22689]

Who has that sig for crazy shit Achronos has said, I think it could use some updates.

That would be LegendarySandwich: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6421&start=105#p96219

"Today I observe that even with great matters, when someone asks, before he has even had the time to complete his question, we interrupt him and answer him. This shows that not only do we not seek enlightenment from the Grace of God, but we do not even judge with the reason God gave us. On the contrary, whatever our thoughts suggest to us, immediately, without hesitation, we trust it and consent to it, often with disastrous results.

"Almost all of us view thoughts as being something simple and natural, and that is why we naively trust them. However, we should neither trust them nor accept them.

"Thoughts are like airplanes flying in the air. If you ignore them, there is no problem. If you pay attention to them, you create an airport inside your head and permit them to land!"

I think he forgot the important part of the article he copied and pasted though...

"Live simply and without thinking too much, like a child with his father. Faith without too much thinking works wonders. The logical mind hinders the Grace of God and miracles. Practice patience without judging with the logical mind."

My guess is the reason why he prefers Orthodoxy is that it explicitly tells you not to think about it... just trust us... really.

You can read the rest here: http://www.pravmir.com/article_23.html.

Enjoy!

Umm, wow. Just finished reading your link, this is the stuff that dictatorships are made of.

[Achronos]

Umm, wow. Just finished reading your link, this is the stuff that dictatorships are made of.

How exactly? I don't see any Orthodox Christians blowing up buildings (more so themselves), killing people, doing damage to others, etc. It's good advice to put more into practice (in the Elder's case Christianity) without contemplating too much on it. I think what he is saying is the more we practice it the less we have to rationalize. I made a comment in the other thread that we can go back and forth all day, but you don't know something by siting around and thinking about it. You know something by experiencing it. It's not about how far I can make God into a mental excercise, because that's not what God is, it truly must be experienced.

[Ultima22689]

Umm, wow. Just finished reading your link, this is the stuff that dictatorships are made of.

How exactly? I don't see any Orthodox Christians blowing up buildings (more so themselves), killing people, doing damage to others, etc. It's good advice to put more into practice (in the Elder's case Christianity) without contemplating too much on it. I think what he is saying is the more we practice it the less we have to rationalize. I made a comment in the other thread that we can go back and forth all day, but you don't know something by siting around and thinking about it. You know something by experiencing it. It's not about how far I can make God into a mental excercise, because that's not what God is, it truly must be experienced.

You do realize that many of the atheist of this board were just as religious as you? Because i'm an open minded person, I gave religion chance, several times, I tried to experience it and yet it seems to remain a fairy tale. Anything that depicts logic/rationalization/thinking is bad, period.  The elder may mean well but you don't have to blow up buildings to make a dictatorship, one can rise without any bloodshed, all it takes is for someone to believe that what you're saying is true. This is what religions/cults want. If they can convince you to not rationalize then they've succeeded in their purpose because they now do the thinking for you AKA a Theocracy, we've had those before and we have some now, it's a system that doesn't work and just stifles the human race so i'll reiterate it again. Anything that preaches rationalization/logic as something not to be trusted is bad.

[Achronos]

You do realize that many of the atheist of this board were just as religious as you?

How are we to quantify this to make a comparable demonstration?

Because i'm an open minded person, I gave religion chance, several times, I tried to experience it and yet it seems to remain a fairy tale.

Or do you mean "too good to be true"?

Anything that depicts logic/rationalization/thinking is bad, period.  The elder may mean well but you don't have to blow up buildings to make a dictatorship, one can rise without any bloodshed, all it takes is for someone to believe that what you're saying is true.

Right, but what the Elder is saying is nothing new, in fact it's hundreds of years old. And he can be backed up by many people who have said and believed the same thing. Yet there was no dictatorship that arose from the wisdom.

This is what religions/cults want. If they can convince you to not rationalize then they've succeeded in their purpose because they now do the thinking for you AKA a Theocracy, we've had those before and we have some now, it's a system that doesn't work and just stifles the human race so i'll reiterate it again. Anything that preaches rationalization/logic as something not to be trusted is bad.

There are certain things we cannot simply rationalize about, for example God. However we do have a brain and we are capable of thought, and one of the things he was saying is that don't be so sure of your own thoughts.

I personally don't think that it has more to do with how credulous that person happens to be. Verily, even very well educated individuals can buy into nonsense if they're not careful, and, furthermore, some of the most heinously asinine ideas I have ever seen have come out of what some would call the intelligentsia.

A mind that is too open is liable to let thoughts of the wrong sort trespass where an otherwise cautious mind would place fortifications. That's the message.

[superfes]

A mind that is too open is liable to let thoughts of the wrong sort trespass where an otherwise cautious mind would place fortifications. That's the message.

Otherwise known as: A mind that is too open is liable to no longer pay tithing.

[Sophus]

I think he forgot the important part of the article he copied and pasted though...

Yeah, I caught him doing that before. From now on I think we should run a quick search on all of "his" posts.

[Ultima22689]

You do realize that many of the atheist of this board were just as religious as you?

How are we to quantify this to make a comparable demonstration?

Because i'm an open minded person, I gave religion chance, several times, I tried to experience it and yet it seems to remain a fairy tale.

Or do you mean "too good to be true"?

Anything that depicts logic/rationalization/thinking is bad, period.  The elder may mean well but you don't have to blow up buildings to make a dictatorship, one can rise without any bloodshed, all it takes is for someone to believe that what you're saying is true.

Right, but what the Elder is saying is nothing new, in fact it's hundreds of years old. And he can be backed up by many people who have said and believed the same thing. Yet there was no dictatorship that arose from the wisdom.

This is what religions/cults want. If they can convince you to not rationalize then they've succeeded in their purpose because they now do the thinking for you AKA a Theocracy, we've had those before and we have some now, it's a system that doesn't work and just stifles the human race so i'll reiterate it again. Anything that preaches rationalization/logic as something not to be trusted is bad.

There are certain things we cannot simply rationalize about, for example God. However we do have a brain and we are capable of thought, and one of the things he was saying is that don't be so sure of your own thoughts.

I personally don't think that it has more to do with how credulous that person happens to be. Verily, even very well educated individuals can buy into nonsense if they're not careful, and, furthermore, some of the most heinously asinine ideas I have ever seen have come out of what some would call the intelligentsia.

A mind that is too open is liable to let thoughts of the wrong sort trespass where an otherwise cautious mind would place fortifications. That's the message.

I doubt you could but you could just ask them if you care enough to prove it.

No, I meant it's complete, utter bullshit. From the moment my grand parents attempted to convert me my bullshit radar was going off the scale and the more I read the bible the more I began to be sure it was complete, utter bullshit. Despite that, for a moment I tried my hardest to pretend logic was irrelevant for god yet I didn't feel or experience sky daddy or anything remotely spiritual, so, no, there is nothing good about it, IMHO. The abrahamic god is a douchenozzle, the fact that I have to set aside logic, one of his "gifts" to see past all of his douchebaggery is one of the biggest red alarms yet.

Yeah, that's true, orthodox christanity isn't the only religion to follow that wisdom. Radical Islam employs the same thing to get people to blows themselves up in the name of your god. The Catholic church used the same wisdom to plunge Europe into the dark ages and bullshit politicians are using it now to convince people to support policy that works to hurt them. It's nothing new alright, it's the best method you can use to control people, the greatest enemy to all of the above is thinking about it AKA employing logic.

Hmm, for the most part agreed, there are some well educated people who have some very ridiculous ideas because they were gullible enough to believe whatever someone was spouting at them. As for an intelligentsia, sounds like tinfoil stuff.

[superfes]

No, I meant it's complete, utter bullshit.

"[...] The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These [...] interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions." -- Albert Einstein

Intelligent people agree, religion is complete and utter bullshit.
 

[hackenslash]

doing damage to others, etc.

Depends what you call damage. Incuclation into whacky, unfounded belief systems is damage, in my opinion, and should be illegal before the age of majority.

You always hear the whinge 'let them make up their own mind', which I agree completely with. Only thing is, when the mind has already been made up, because the child has had it drilled into their head while completely unable to resist, it doesn't constitute making up their own mind. One's own mind can only be made up about something when one has full control of one's mind. Religion is mind control and, when inculcated at an early age, extremely difficult to resist.

In my opinion, indoctrinating one's children into one's religion should be punishable by imprisonment just as much as any other form of child abuse. Deliberately keeping your children stupid is the most heinous of crimes.

[hackenslash]

Right, but what the Elder is saying is nothing new, in fact it's hundreds of years old. And he can be backed up by many people who have said and believed the same thing. Yet there was no dictatorship that arose from the wisdom.

Perhaps you'd like to go and have that conversation with Tomas de Torquemada.

[LegendarySandwich]

Depends what you call damage. Incuclation into whacky, unfounded belief systems is damage, in my opinion, and should be illegal before the age of majority.

You always hear the whinge 'let them make up their own mind', which I agree completely with. Only thing is, when the mind has already been made up, because the child has had it drilled into their head while completely unable to resist, it doesn't constitute making up their own mind. One's own mind can only be made up about something when one has full control of one's mind. Religion is mind control and, when inculcated at an early age, extremely difficult to resist.

In my opinion, indoctrinating one's children into one's religion should be punishable by imprisonment just as much as any other form of child abuse. Deliberately keeping your children stupid is the most heinous of crimes.

I disagree with this. Like it or not, what's "stupid" is a matter of opinion. Somebody could just as easily say that atheistic belief systems are stupid, and they have the power of numbers on their side.

We have to let parents have control over their kids (to a certain extent), because there's no real viable alternative; I mean, do you want the government taking care of kids, or loving, even if misguided, moms and dads? Parents should be allowed to teach their kids anything they feel they should, whether that be that all people are created equal or that God created the Earth in six days.

[hackenslash]

I disagree with this. Like it or not, what's "stupid" is a matter of opinion. Somebody could just as easily say that atheistic belief systems are stupid, and they have the power of numbers on their side.

Except, of course, that they'd be making a category error, because there are no 'atheistic belief systems', and the rest is an argumentum ad populum.

We have to let parents have control over their kids (to a certain extent), because there's no real viable alternative; I mean, do you want the government taking care of kids, or loving, even if misguided, moms and dads? Parents should be allowed to teach their kids anything they feel they should, whether that be that all people are created equal or that God created the Earth in six days.

Nonsense. Firstly. children are not property. Not only that, this lends weight to the cretinous assertion that we should worship magic man because he allegedly created us, making us his property.

In any event, governments intervene in all sorts of ways, so why should the stunting of the education of children in things that are demonstrably not true, or at the very least, not demonstrably true, be any different?

The rights of parents behaviour toward their children is circumscribed by government in many ways. I merely feel that this should be included, as it is, in my opinion, among the worst of abuses.