The purpose of life

[Whitney]

Defendor....I think you should ask your church leaders to help you understand what we are saying because I'm pretty sure that (while they would agree with you that objective meaning exists) that you are misusing the word subjective and the word meaning to try to support your views and in the process are annoying a lot of peole.

You can't prove objective meaning by attacking the view that one can have subjective meaning.  If you want to make an argument for objective meaning you're going to have to start fresh with a proof of what that objective meaning is based on.

Keep in mind that quite a few of the people you are talking to here have college degrees and/or have studied philosophy extensively; so if you make a real point we will be able to get it even if we have reason to disagree.

[LegendarySandwich]

This is the point I was trying to make, how can you tell someone to go find their own meaning, when there is no such thing as meaning in the first place.

Please define "meaning"

i posted a definition from definition.com

With that definition, we've never said there isn't meaning.

...also you mention lying as if you are basing your statement on objective truth, for if there were no such thing as objective truth, then there is no such thing as lying

Are you taking drugs?

Nope but that doesn't answer my question

Also, you keep saying things as if we believe that there's no objective truth, when I've told you many times now that I, and most likely the majority of other users here, believe in objective truth. Meaning is not the same as facts.

[Whitney]

Yourself, its an issue of the heart, you don't want anyone telling you how to live your life

Defendor, you have no way of knowing why someone doesn't believe in something unless you ask them.  I could easily assume that you believe in god because you are afraid of responsibility; yet I'd just be making wild assumptions that probably aren't true.

If you continue to project your stereotypical views on atheists or any other type of member here I will start handing out the kind of warnings that get you banned.

[Stevil]

The universe is a closed system, not just the earth

the laws of physics, can you physically move outside of space and time?

Again with the incorrect assumptions. Are you assuming that the space and time are a subset of the universe?

[defendor]

You're right -- I'm an agnostic Pastafarian.

so can you, as an agnostic Pastafarian, explain the answers to the questions of Meaning? Morality? Purpose? Destiny?

p.s. I know you're being quite sarcastic

[LegendarySandwich]

so can you, as an agnostic Pastafarian, explain the answers to the questions of Meaning? Morality? Purpose? Destiny?

p.s. I know you're being quite sarcastic

Meaning = What the great and almighty FSM likes (probably)
Morality = What the great and almighty FSM likes (probably)
Purpose = What the great and almighty FSM likes (probably)
Destiny = What the great and almighty FSM likes (probably)

By the way, that was a non-sequitor.

[defendor]

Defendor....I think you should ask your church leaders to help you understand what we are saying because I'm pretty sure that (while they would agree with you that objective meaning exists) that you are misusing the word subjective and the word meaning to try to support your views and in the process are annoying a lot of peole.

You can't prove objective meaning by attacking the view that one can have subjective meaning.  If you want to make an argument for objective meaning you're going to have to start fresh with a proof of what that objective meaning is based on.

Keep in mind that quite a few of the people you are talking to here have college degrees and/or have studied philosophy extensively; so if you make a real point we will be able to get it even if we have reason to disagree.

Objective meaning is based on whether or not there is a God.

[LegendarySandwich]

Also, you keep saying things as if we believe that there's no objective truth, when I've told you many times now that I, and most likely the majority of other users here, believe in objective truth. Meaning is not the same as facts.

so are we basing meaning on facts?

...No...?

[defendor]

Defendor, you have no way of knowing why someone doesn't believe in something unless you ask them.  I could easily assume that you believe in god because you are afraid of responsibility; yet I'd just be making wild assumptions that probably aren't true.

If you continue to project your stereotypical views on atheists or any other type of member here I will start handing out the kind of warnings that get you banned.

I apologize I did not mean to insult you, based on the evidence of your arguments, essentially stating, we as beings "define our own reality" I made a logical conclusion

[hackenslash]

so can you, as an agnostic Pastafarian, explain the answers to the questions of Meaning? Morality? Purpose? Destiny?

42?

Seriously, what are the questions, exactly? You haven't actually stated what they are, so it's a bit difficult to know what the answers are.

Meaning? Meaning of what? Morality? Doesn't exist in any objective sense. Certainly, we think we know what right and wrong are, but they're entirely subjective, which is why we call them 'values'. Values are necessarily subjective. Purpose? I have yet to be convinced that we actually have any purpose, so I just get on with enjoying what I am convinced we do have, which is life. Destiny? Again, I don't think there's any such thing. Indeed, given that the universe is demonstrably not deterministic, destiny is a moot point, because the entire concept of destiny is rooted in determinism, and the idea that there is a path laid out for you.

So, you're asking somebody for the answers to questions that aren't even questions. In fact, it's worse than that, because you're actually asking for an explanation of answers to questions that aren't questions, which is, if you'll pardon the pun, begging the question, namely that those answers and the explanations thereof actually exist.

Garbled nonsense, if you ask me.

[Whitney]

Objective meaning is based on whether or not there is a God.

Well, no...Buddhist atheists don't seem to have any problems claiming there is objective meaning.

but if your point it to prove that objective meaning exist start a new thread and prove it and quit worrying about the fact that a lot of atheists subjectively apply meaning to stuff.

[LegendarySandwich]

I apologize I did not mean to insult you, based on the evidence of your arguments, essentially stating, we as beings "define our own reality" I made a logical conclusion

When did anyone here ever say that we define our own reality?

[LegendarySandwich]

Objective meaning is based on whether or not there is a God.

Objective meaning can exist without a god. In fact, I don't think that it can exist even with a god.

[Whitney]

I apologize I did not mean to insult you, based on the evidence of your arguments, essentially stating, we as beings "define our own reality" I made a logical conclusion

I never said that.  I'm not sure if anyone said that.  Nor does it logically follow that someone who claims to define their own reality has that view because they don't like being told what to do.
[youtube:a2mh8pf2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBxE0y7b464[/youtube:a2mh8pf2]

[defendor]

Also, you keep saying things as if we believe that there's no objective truth, when I've told you many times now that I, and most likely the majority of other users here, believe in objective truth. Meaning is not the same as facts.

so are we basing meaning on facts?

...No...?

So when you base meaning on whatever it is you want to base it on, you can do whatever you want (maybe the appeal of atheism...?) So if we are not basing meaning on facts, what does it mean if you are moving at 60 miles per hour straight into a concrete wall...?


I noticed you posted something along the lines of "morality is what helps you" I'm not sure, but you still are making the assumption that you are worth while in the fact that getting what you desire has meaning