The gospel is ridiculous!

[defendor]

for the first question http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzTm3W2Ai7s

I can't watch it right now.

the second one and the third tie together, on what moral standard are you basing this good and bad on? if we are products of evolution and chance is our creator, why are there such things as good, or bad?

There is no ultimate moral standard. "Good" and "bad" are entirely subjective. What is "bad" and what is "good" to me is simply my opinion.

So what does it matter if Hitler was good or bad, if it is a subjective moral standard, how could you mock him for saying he was good?

[Tank]

have you once, at any time been a "Christian"?

Yes.

What are your views on God now?

The Abrahamic gods? I know with reasonable certainty that they don't exist. As to any god in general, I think that they probably don't exist, but I don't deny their existence as I couldn't possibly know.

What is good?

The opposite of bad -- that is to say, things I like.

for the first question http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzTm3W2Ai7s

the second one and the third tie together, on what moral standard are you basing this good and bad on? if we are products of evolution and chance is our creator, why are there such things as good, or bad?

Good and bad are simply different views of any given activity based on which side of the activity a person stands. For the mugger, mugging is not a thing they would consider 'bad enough' to stop them doing it. In their world view mugging is 'good' as they benefit from it. From the victim's point of view being mugged is 'bad'. It harms them physically, emotionally and materially. Good or bad is determined by perspective, it is not an absolute.

As an evolved creature there are both physical and behavioural variations in all of us short/tall, empathic/autistic, selfish/altruistic etc. All these characteristics exist on a continuum, they are analogue not digital quantities. Thus some people end up with characteristics that may pre-dispose them to stereotypical good or bad behaviour. The environment they are born into will influence their adult behaviour too. Thus variations in behaviour are a given and the behaviour of an individual verses the expectations of the community they live in will determine if that behaviour is perceived as 'good' or 'bad'.

See, no god required to explain aor appreciate how good and bad are perceived in any given community/society.

[LegendarySandwich]

Please point to the proof

First, there's the contractions between his supposed traits, i.e. can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it, and can God look into the future and then change what he was going to do?.

Then there's the problem of evil.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

[LegendarySandwich]

So what does it matter if Hitler was good or bad, if it is a subjective moral standard, how could you mock him for saying he was good?

Because I think he was an evil man who did horrible, horrible acts, and I also think that's very obvious.

[defendor]

So what does it matter if Hitler was good or bad, if it is a subjective moral standard, how could you mock him for saying he was good?

Because I think he was an evil man who did horrible, horrible acts, and I also think that's very obvious.

obvious to who? you? on what objective moral standard is this obvious, i mean, the entire nation of nazi Germany thought quite the contrary.  Because you think...? isn't that subjective, what does your opinion really matter if everything is relative?

[LegendarySandwich]

obvious to who? you?

Yes, and pretty much everyone else of the modern world.

on what objective moral standard is this obvious, i mean, the entire nation of nazi Germany thought quite the contrary.

It's obvious to me.

Because you think...? isn't that subjective,

I just said it was.

what does your opinion really matter if everything is relative?

If "everything is relative", then my opinion is the only thing that matters.

[defendor]

obvious to who? you?

Yes, and pretty much everyone else of the modern world

on what objective moral standard is this obvious, i mean, the entire nation of nazi Germany thought quite the contrary.

It's obvious to me.

Because you think...? isn't that subjective,

I just said it was.

what does your opinion really matter if everything is relative?

If "everything is relative", then my opinion is the only thing that matters.

So why do you bring everyone else in the modern world to agree with your opinion if your opinion is the only thing that matters.

[Stevil]

Because there are a lot of Christians that are hell bent on trying to convert non Christians.
Because there are a lot of religious people trying to push their morals and sin system onto others

That may be so, but how do people in abuse of a philosophy, disqualify the philosophy itself?

There are many issues with many of the philosophies. If one is seen as a threat e.g. because it keeps growing and affects laws and societies rules then people become motivated to stop it and hence publicise or vocalise the issues with the philosophies in an attempt to quell its growth and power to affect laws etc.

Also, it is natural to challenge all theories, without challenges we would not find the truth.

[defendor]

Because there are a lot of Christians that are hell bent on trying to convert non Christians.
Because there are a lot of religious people trying to push their morals and sin system onto others

That may be so, but how do people in abuse of a philosophy, disqualify the philosophy itself?

There are many issues with many of the philosophies. If one is seen as a threat e.g. because it keeps growing and affects laws and societies rules then people become motivated to stop it and hence publicise or vocalise the issues with the philosophies in an attempt to quell its growth and power to affect laws etc.

Also, it is natural to challenge all theories, without challenges we would not find the truth.

So in that first part, you are making claims to some objective standard of living, but aren't all perspectives relative, how would that be seen as an issue if there is no coherent standard as to what defines an issue?

On the second part, I completely agree

[defendor]

Have you once, at any time been a "Christian"? What are your views on God now?  What is good?

I've been a Catholic
I no longer consider God to be real
Good is the opposite of bad. Anything that unnecessary hurts other beings, I consider to be bad

for the first question http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzTm3W2Ai7s

the second one and the third tie together, on what moral standard are you basing this good and bad on? if we are products of evolution and chance is our creator, why are there such things as good, or bad?

[LegendarySandwich]

So why do you bring everyone else in the modern world to agree with your opinion if your opinion is the only thing that matters.

Just pointing it out.

And note that I said "if". I don't believe that everything is literally relative -- I believe that there are facts.

[defendor]

SO why are you judging a philosophy by its abuse

Can you please learn how to use the quote system? It's really annoying when you don't use it correctly.
We're not "judging a philosophy by its abuse".

Ya idk how to do the quote thing yet, so I simply went to a post you made and copied it, feel free to go back and look at

When Christians stop doing things I don't like, such as oppose gay equality, then I'll continue to be harsh against it.
Also, it's stupid, and that's a good a reason as any to mock something.

Read that first line, not only did you not mention Christianity, you specifically pointed out Christians to be the blame.  Sounds like judging a philosophy by its abuse

[defendor]

SO why are you judging a philosophy by its abuse

Can you please learn how to use the quote system? It's really annoying when you don't use it correctly.
We're not "judging a philosophy by its abuse".

Ya idk how to do the quote thing yet, so I simply went to a post you made and copied it, feel free to go back and look at

When Christians stop doing things I don't like, such as oppose gay equality, then I'll continue to be harsh against it.
Also, it's stupid, and that's a good a reason as any to mock something.

Read that first line, not only did you not mention Christianity, you specifically pointed out Christians to be the blame.  Sounds like judging a philosophy by its abuse

[LegendarySandwich]

Read that first line, not only did you not mention Christianity, you specifically pointed out Christians to be the blame.  Sounds like judging a philosophy by its abuse

I'm not rejecting Christianity because of those reasons. I'm saying I'm against it and ridicule it for those reasons.

[Whitney]

Ya idk how to do the quote thing yet, so I simply went to a post you made and copied it, feel free to go back and look at

learn it viewtopic.php?f=39&t=203