Delusions

[keithpenrod]

Can't say "bomb" anywhere near an airport.

that's a safety issue as it could cause a riot.  There are other similar anti-riot laws that prevent yelling bomb, fire etc in crowds.

Not at all.  If you're talking to your friend at an airport and decide to joke about having put a bomb in your luggage, that certainly won't cause a riot because no one will hear you, and if anyone does, they'll just realize that you're joking and won't care.  But if a TSA officer hears you, they can detain you for it and treat you as a terrorist. 

Can't even make jokes to TSA officers.  And that's just the law. 

That's a law?  I can't find record of it anywhere on the TSA website or in the Patriot Act.  Joking a lot probably would be a good way to get pulled into the special room for further screening as it would be irregular behavior.  Anyway, I'd be more concerned about the Patriot Act than what the TSA is specifically doing.

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

Then there's societal pressure.  Say you're gay and you get bullied in middle and high school.  Say you're atheist and no one talks to you anymore, except to try to exorcise you.  Say you're skeptical about the official story of the twin towers and you're labeled a "truther". 

I don't think peer pressure really counts as inhibiting the right to free speech...it's just others exercising their right.

I disagree completely.  What is the law, other than the strongest manifestation (in an orderly society, anyway) of social pressure?  I may very well be "allowed" to say something, according to the law, but if everyone I ever say it to insults me, berates me, ridicules me, or becomes physically violent against me for saying it, then I'm really not free to say it.  That isn't freedom of speech at all.  True freedom of speech is when people are allowed to say things without any fear of personal harm for doing so.  To say that you have freedom of speech when you are ridiculed for speaking is to deceive yourself.

We're so far from an enlightened society it's a complete farce.  People should be able to share their own ideas and be heard and considered, not dismissed and ridiculed.  That isn't free speech.  It's the rule of the majority.  If you have an idea that's unpopular, you're beat into the ground.  That's primitive.  If you don't have evidence to produce to support your own opinion or to call another person's into question, then you're just bullying the other person.  To tell someone "your opinion doesn't matter because you're just a nutty truther" or "you're an idiot because you believe in god" is to avoid rational discussion.  It is to deny reason.  And it is to deny free speech, by attempting to silence someone simply because you disagree with them.  That is not right, nor will I endorse it.

[keithpenrod]

Anyway, I'd be more concerned about the Patriot Act than what the TSA is specifically doing.

Yes, the PATRIOT Act is something to be concerned about, but it's really just a minor step in the process.  The NDAA is far worse--authorizing indefinite detention without trial of anyone.  That's far worse, in the way of violation of individual rights.  And I don't doubt that it will continue in this direction until some sort of revolution happens.  It is the course of history, happening time and again in every civilization. 

[AnimatedDirt]

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

I'm sure they won't be bothering you for a simple 'knock-knock' joke, however I believe the joking they may be speaking of is joking about anything the TSA is there to find prior to boarding an airplane.  Now if the knock-knock joke's punchline is "A BOMB!"...then I think they might have issue.

[Guardian85]

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

I'm sure they won't be bothering you for a simple 'knock-knock' joke, however I believe the joking they may be speaking of is joking about anything the TSA is there to find prior to boarding an airplane.  Now if the knock-knock joke's punchline is "A BOMB!"...then I think they might have issue.

I work security, and we HATE those jokes! Because we can't always assume that the person is in fact joking. As a matter of security we can never assume that someone who is joking with a friend is actually joking. And then people get mad at us because they made our job more difficult.

[AnimatedDirt]

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

I'm sure they won't be bothering you for a simple 'knock-knock' joke, however I believe the joking they may be speaking of is joking about anything the TSA is there to find prior to boarding an airplane.  Now if the knock-knock joke's punchline is "A BOMB!"...then I think they might have issue.

I work security, and we HATE those jokes! Because we can't always assume that the person is in fact joking. As a matter of security we can never assume that someone who is joking with a friend is actually joking. And then people get mad at us because they made our job more difficult.

Well there you go.  Keithpenrod is more right than he is wrong.

[Guardian85]

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

I'm sure they won't be bothering you for a simple 'knock-knock' joke, however I believe the joking they may be speaking of is joking about anything the TSA is there to find prior to boarding an airplane.  Now if the knock-knock joke's punchline is "A BOMB!"...then I think they might have issue.

I work security, and we HATE those jokes! Because we can't always assume that the person is in fact joking. As a matter of security we can never assume that someone who is joking with a friend is actually joking. And then people get mad at us because they made our job more difficult.

Well there you go.  Keithpenrod is more right than he is wrong.

Well, here in Norway it is in no way illegal to crack jokes. It's just annoying.

[Asmodean]

Well, here in Norway it is in no way illegal to crack jokes. It's just annoying.

Most jokes are, in my experience, usually made in all the wrong places and situations. Some people try using those as ice-breakers too... Subjectively, "gotta light?" works better. Both as ice breaker and in awkward silence.

[Ali]

Well, here in Norway it is in no way illegal to crack jokes. It's just annoying.

Most jokes are, in my experience, usually made in all the wrong places and situations. Some people try using those as ice-breakers too... Subjectively, "gotta light?" works better. Both as ice breaker and in awkward silence.

What if you don't smoke?  Like, if I went up to someone and said "Gotta light?", they pulled it out, and I said "Oh good.  I don't smoke, I was just making conversation."  Is that a better or worse ice breaker than a bomb joke? 

[Asmodean]

What if you don't smoke?  Like, if I went up to someone and said "Gotta light?", they pulled it out, and I said "Oh good.  I don't smoke, I was just making conversation."  Is that a better or worse ice breaker than a bomb joke? 

It is, in itself, a joke/prank. Therefor, it sucks for those purposes. You can also pretend to need to write something down and ask to borrow a pen if you are in a no-smoking area or if you yourself are... A non-smoking area.

[Ali]

What if you don't smoke?  Like, if I went up to someone and said "Gotta light?", they pulled it out, and I said "Oh good.  I don't smoke, I was just making conversation."  Is that a better or worse ice breaker than a bomb joke? 

It is, in itself, a joke/prank. Therefor, it sucks for those purposes. You can also pretend to need to write something down and ask to borrow a pen if you are in a no-smoking area or if you yourself are... A non-smoking area.

*Sad panda Ali* 

[keithpenrod]

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

I'm sure they won't be bothering you for a simple 'knock-knock' joke, however I believe the joking they may be speaking of is joking about anything the TSA is there to find prior to boarding an airplane.  Now if the knock-knock joke's punchline is "A BOMB!"...then I think they might have issue.

That's precisely what I mean.

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

I'm sure they won't be bothering you for a simple 'knock-knock' joke, however I believe the joking they may be speaking of is joking about anything the TSA is there to find prior to boarding an airplane.  Now if the knock-knock joke's punchline is "A BOMB!"...then I think they might have issue.

I work security, and we HATE those jokes! Because we can't always assume that the person is in fact joking. As a matter of security we can never assume that someone who is joking with a friend is actually joking. And then people get mad at us because they made our job more difficult.

No wonder the security isn't effective, if you're taking everyone seriously.  You spend all your time on jokes and false threats.  How is that in any way beneficial?  Make your own job easier by not being so uptight about it. 

Honestly, lots of people are sarcastic.  And most people aren't terrorists.  Most people aren't even dangerous in any real sense.  So, if you assume they are dangerous, by making them take off their shoes, belt, jacket, and telling them they can't even carry a water bottle onto a plane because they might shake it up and explode the plane they're on, then they're going to make a joke about it.  They're going to point out how ridiculous it is for you to assume that everyone getting on the plane is a threat to security.  They're going to feel intimidated by the ridiculously rigorous security, and humor is one way to lighten the situation.  I mean, if you ask me "do you have a bomb in there", I'm going to reply with "No, actually I have three." not because I actually have bombs in my backpack, but because you suggesting the idea that I have one is absurd. 

[xSilverPhinx]

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

I'm sure they won't be bothering you for a simple 'knock-knock' joke, however I believe the joking they may be speaking of is joking about anything the TSA is there to find prior to boarding an airplane.  Now if the knock-knock joke's punchline is "A BOMB!"...then I think they might have issue.

That's precisely what I mean.

You're either joking or completely oblivious to the state of airport security, at least in the United Sates (but I would assume it's no better in Europe).  Every time I was in the Bush Intercontinental airport, every few minutes, an automated announcement would come one with TSA regulations, one of which clearly stated that making jokes was not allowed.

I'm sure they won't be bothering you for a simple 'knock-knock' joke, however I believe the joking they may be speaking of is joking about anything the TSA is there to find prior to boarding an airplane.  Now if the knock-knock joke's punchline is "A BOMB!"...then I think they might have issue.

I work security, and we HATE those jokes! Because we can't always assume that the person is in fact joking. As a matter of security we can never assume that someone who is joking with a friend is actually joking. And then people get mad at us because they made our job more difficult.

No wonder the security isn't effective, if you're taking everyone seriously.  You spend all your time on jokes and false threats.  How is that in any way beneficial?  Make your own job easier by not being so uptight about it. 

Honestly, lots of people are sarcastic.  And most people aren't terrorists.  Most people aren't even dangerous in any real sense.  So, if you assume they are dangerous, by making them take off their shoes, belt, jacket, and telling them they can't even carry a water bottle onto a plane because they might shake it up and explode the plane they're on, then they're going to make a joke about it.  They're going to point out how ridiculous it is for you to assume that everyone getting on the plane is a threat to security.  They're going to feel intimidated by the ridiculously rigorous security, and humor is one way to lighten the situation.  I mean, if you ask me "do you have a bomb in there", I'm going to reply with "No, actually I have three." not because I actually have bombs in my backpack, but because you suggesting the idea that I have one is absurd. 

A false positive is better than an overlooked or ignored positive.

I can actually understand why a security guard would jump on every single suspicion. There's no room for overlooked threats.

[xSilverPhinx]

I disagree completely.  What is the law, other than the strongest manifestation (in an orderly society, anyway) of social pressure?  I may very well be "allowed" to say something, according to the law, but if everyone I ever say it to insults me, berates me, ridicules me, or becomes physically violent against me for saying it, then I'm really not free to say it.  That isn't freedom of speech at all.  True freedom of speech is when people are allowed to say things without any fear of personal harm for doing so.  To say that you have freedom of speech when you are ridiculed for speaking is to deceive yourself.

We're so far from an enlightened society it's a complete farce.  People should be able to share their own ideas and be heard and considered, not dismissed and ridiculed.  That isn't free speech.  It's the rule of the majority.  If you have an idea that's unpopular, you're beat into the ground.  That's primitive.  If you don't have evidence to produce to support your own opinion or to call another person's into question, then you're just bullying the other person.  To tell someone "your opinion doesn't matter because you're just a nutty truther" or "you're an idiot because you believe in god" is to avoid rational discussion.  It is to deny reason.  And it is to deny free speech, by attempting to silence someone simply because you disagree with them.  That is not right, nor will I endorse it.

Do you also have the right to not be offended?

Also, free speech is not completely free, but that's besides the point. It's not about being able to say whatever you want. If you yell "fire" in a crowded theatre and cause a human stampede in which someone gets seriously hurt (which is actually very probable), that's one good reason why people shouldn't be free to yell "fire" in a crowed place. People usually have the common sense to see such a chain of events happening in a worst case scenario and so know that even though they have the mental and physical capacity to yell a word, they really shouldn't.  

As for violence, I agree that if someone has physically harmed you for voicing your opinion, then they feel a bit too entitled to not being offended. That's a different case altogether and they should be held accountable for it. using speech to incite violence too, does not constitute free in the sense of the word.

[Guardian85]

No wonder the security isn't effective, if you're taking everyone seriously.  You spend all your time on jokes and false threats.  How is that in any way beneficial?  Make your own job easier by not being so uptight about it. 

Honestly, lots of people are sarcastic.  And most people aren't terrorists.  Most people aren't even dangerous in any real sense.  So, if you assume they are dangerous, by making them take off their shoes, belt, jacket, and telling them they can't even carry a water bottle onto a plane because they might shake it up and explode the plane they're on, then they're going to make a joke about it.  They're going to point out how ridiculous it is for you to assume that everyone getting on the plane is a threat to security.  They're going to feel intimidated by the ridiculously rigorous security, and humor is one way to lighten the situation.  I mean, if you ask me "do you have a bomb in there", I'm going to reply with "No, actually I have three." not because I actually have bombs in my backpack, but because you suggesting the idea that I have one is absurd. 

If you "drop the ball" in the office (I don't know what you actually do for a living, it's just an example) the files have to be resorted and copied and that solves the problem.
If a security guard at the air port let's one past in the worst case you have an aircraft with 200 people blow up over a populated area. See the difference?
That is why security take their jobs seriously.

[keithpenrod]

No wonder the security isn't effective, if you're taking everyone seriously.  You spend all your time on jokes and false threats.  How is that in any way beneficial?  Make your own job easier by not being so uptight about it. 

Honestly, lots of people are sarcastic.  And most people aren't terrorists.  Most people aren't even dangerous in any real sense.  So, if you assume they are dangerous, by making them take off their shoes, belt, jacket, and telling them they can't even carry a water bottle onto a plane because they might shake it up and explode the plane they're on, then they're going to make a joke about it.  They're going to point out how ridiculous it is for you to assume that everyone getting on the plane is a threat to security.  They're going to feel intimidated by the ridiculously rigorous security, and humor is one way to lighten the situation.  I mean, if you ask me "do you have a bomb in there", I'm going to reply with "No, actually I have three." not because I actually have bombs in my backpack, but because you suggesting the idea that I have one is absurd. 

If you "drop the ball" in the office (I don't know what you actually do for a living, it's just an example) the files have to be resorted and copied and that solves the problem.
If a security guard at the air port let's one past in the worst case you have an aircraft with 200 people blow up over a populated area. See the difference?
That is why security take their jobs seriously.

So, you're telling me that someone who has a bomb in his suitcase is going to say so to a TSA officer? That's not taking your job seriously, that's having silly assumptions. If I have a bomb, the last thing I'm going to do is go around telling people about it--especially in earshot of TSA. So, to assume that someone has a bomb because they say they do seems like a stupid assumption to me.

I disagree completely.  What is the law, other than the strongest manifestation (in an orderly society, anyway) of social pressure?  I may very well be "allowed" to say something, according to the law, but if everyone I ever say it to insults me, berates me, ridicules me, or becomes physically violent against me for saying it, then I'm really not free to say it.  That isn't freedom of speech at all.  True freedom of speech is when people are allowed to say things without any fear of personal harm for doing so.  To say that you have freedom of speech when you are ridiculed for speaking is to deceive yourself.

We're so far from an enlightened society it's a complete farce.  People should be able to share their own ideas and be heard and considered, not dismissed and ridiculed.  That isn't free speech.  It's the rule of the majority.  If you have an idea that's unpopular, you're beat into the ground.  That's primitive.  If you don't have evidence to produce to support your own opinion or to call another person's into question, then you're just bullying the other person.  To tell someone "your opinion doesn't matter because you're just a nutty truther" or "you're an idiot because you believe in god" is to avoid rational discussion.  It is to deny reason.  And it is to deny free speech, by attempting to silence someone simply because you disagree with them.  That is not right, nor will I endorse it.

Do you also have the right to not be offended?

Also, free speech is not completely free, but that's besides the point. It's not about being able to say whatever you want. If you yell "fire" in a crowded theatre and cause a human stampede in which someone gets seriously hurt (which is actually very probable), that's one good reason why people shouldn't be free to yell "fire" in a crowed place. People usually have the common sense to see such a chain of events happening in a worst case scenario and so know that even though they have the mental and physical capacity to yell a word, they really shouldn't.   

As for violence, I agree that if someone has physically harmed you for voicing your opinion, then they feel a bit too entitled to not being offended. That's a different case altogether and they should be held accountable for it. using speech to incite violence too, does not constitute free in the sense of the word.

To answer your question, no. No one has the right to not be offended. As for everything else you said, that's merely paraphrasing what I've been trying to say. So I'll have no choice but to agree with you.