If you had to start a religion...

[The Magic Pudding]

"Love" has meaning only in its opposition to "hate."  Just as every "up" is necessarily accompanied by a "down"; otherwise we'd need 'up-ladders'' to get up & 'down-ladders' to get back down.  This is a truth at the heart of (non-dual) Taoism, i.e. that all sticks come with two ends, and saw off as much of the "bad end" as you may (i.e. a "dualist"), you will never have an end to opposing ends.  So long as you embrace "love," you will engender it opposite.

Mumbo jumbo jumbo, jumbo jumbo.

[Jimmy]

Isn't Shinto chock full of nature spirits busy demanding propitiation lest we offend?  I've often heard some misfortunate occurance's blame being place on an "evil Kami's" influence.  I'm curious how an "atheist" (such as yourself) would get around this excess of deistic meddling?

Well, I'm NOT a Shintoist, and believe that such meddling is, of course, ridiculous; it's more about respect for the natural world, inner peace, balance, which is not copyright protected by deists  Don't get me wrong, I like different aspects of many different religion, but for me its an experience thing.  In fact I even recently went to Ash Wednesday(It was really awkward at first) at a Catholic church because I've never done that before, but it was also an interesting experience: "Remember thou art dust, and to dust you shall return!"  as burnt palms were signed across my forehead translated to me as "Life is short, so get a move on!"  I actually thought it was kind of cool!But is was also really weird listening to the priest because most of the people there probably believed in every word he said: YIKES!Needless to say I won't be doing that again.  I like all sorts of these kinds of things and like Buddhist philosophies and enjoy reading about different mythologies. I only have one life and want to experience the human palette as much as I can. 

[Amicale]

Isn't Shinto chock full of nature spirits busy demanding propitiation lest we offend?  I've often heard some misfortunate occurance's blame being place on an "evil Kami's" influence.  I'm curious how an "atheist" (such as yourself) would get around this excess of deistic meddling?

Well, I'm NOT a Shintoist, and believe that such meddling is, of course, ridiculous; it's more about respect for the natural world, inner peace, balance, which is not copyright protected by deists  Don't get me wrong, I like different aspects of many different religion, but for me its an experience thing.  In fact I even recently went to Ash Wednesday(It was really awkward at first) at a Catholic church because I've never done that before, but it was also an interesting experience: "Remember thou art dust, and to dust you shall return!"  as burnt palms were signed across my forehead translated to me as "Life is short, so get a move on!"  I actually thought it was kind of cool!But is was also really weird listening to the priest because most of the people there probably believed in every word he said: YIKES!Needless to say I won't be doing that again.  I like all sorts of these kinds of things and like Buddhist philosophies and enjoy reading about different mythologies. I only have one life and want to experience the human palette as much as I can. 

I totally understand where you're coming from. I've been to Jewish temples and Muslim mosques, as well as a Buddhist meeting center and different sorts of Christian churches. I've had some really neat experiences. Just seeing what goes on there, what ideas and practices people have, that's pretty cool to me, most of the time. My favourite was actually the Jewish temple, because from what I could tell, the Rabbi there was more or less at least agnostic if not atheist. He didn't mention God in his sermon. He talked about doing good in the world and embracing life because this life was all we had. It was great. The mosque was cool, too -- I went this last summer because I was teaching Muslim students and I just wanted to see what it was like. The folks there were nice, and after the service they put on an AMAZING lunch with middle eastern food! Delicious!

The only time I've been really frightened was years ago, maybe 10 years back, when my dad went through a bout of Pentecostalism and dragged me to church with him -- people were wailing, beating tamborines, rolling in the aisles, muttering and chanting in random gobbledegook "languages", laughing hysterically without stopping, sobbing uncontrollably -- all because there was an "altar call" and they believed they'd been 'slain by the holy spirit'. I was terrified. I stood there, eyes wide, and told my dad "I'm leaving" and got the hell out of there and went outside to sit on the steps until the service was over. I think that moment marked the first time in my life when I realized that actually buying INTO and fully BELIEVING everything a religious leader said could be scary and dangerous. Having the experience itself just to have it was one thing, but I never, ever went back again.

[Jimmy]

I had a similar experience. My uncle made my sister and I  go to his Baptist church when I was a teenager, and it was REALLY creepy to me. By then I already had earth science and understood that they were just WRONG on evolution and  the age of the Earth, poor kids:(  I ended up getting into a debate with my uncle afterwards and won!! Victorious!!

I don't know what it is about the Eastern religions that I like so much; it's probably from watching too many movies!!! They just don't come across as preachy and there is nothing more I dislike than that(unless its preaching about science). So I don't mind contemplating the philosophy of their beliefs; the supernatural, not so much.....

[history_geek]

I don't know what it is about the Eastern religions that I like so much; it's probably from watching too many movies!!! They just don't come across as preachy and there is nothing more I dislike than that(unless its preaching about science). So I don't mind contemplating the philosophy of their beliefs; the supernatural, not so much.....

For my part I think part of the appeal is the idea of "inner balance" and focus on ones personal growth. In most western religions the influence is always external, which is to say that someone else comes to drag you from mental state A to enlightenment B ("divine revelation from god"), or something along those lines. The eastern religions also seem more subtle to and elegant to me. A quick comparison that I would think of is comparing a person playing a simple flute (eastern religions) to someone driving a tank with the biggest, loudest loudspeakers playing a noisy tune (any tv-evangelist you might think of...).

But that's just me Personally I blame the extensive amount of manga that I have read over the years that incorporate some elements of those philosophies. Still, I rather enjoy them, though there are also movies like the Red Cliff that are equally intriguing in giving contrast to western thinking. And I can't help but chuckle again at how arrogant our western culture seems when you take into account that all other civilizations other then "ours" (the ones with greco-roman connections) have been seen as "barbaric". And then you watch a scene where the general and the military adviser, whose trying to convince the general to fight against a common enemy, have an exchange through...music. Not a debate, nor argumentation, but playing of instruments. And I can't help but wonder how many of us "westerners" would have missed the point of that scene if they didn't point it out later....

[Non Sum]

Isn't Shinto chock full of nature spirits busy demanding propitiation lest we offend?  I've often heard some misfortunate occurance's blame being place on an "evil Kami's" influence.  I'm curious how an "atheist" (such as yourself) would get around this excess of deistic meddling?

Well, I'm NOT a Shintoist, and believe that such meddling is, of course, ridiculous; it's more about respect for the natural world, inner peace, balance, which is not copyright protected by deists   Don't get me wrong, I like different aspects of many different religion, but for me its an experience thing.  ...  I like all sorts of these kinds of things and like Buddhist philosophies and enjoy reading about different mythologies. I only have one life and want to experience the human palette as much as I can.  

Well put!  I'm with you all the way, and have spent a lifetime studying the world's major religions.  Though, for me it has been more of an academic approach, rather than "experiential."  

Being a "seeker" for answers to the eternal questions (e.g. who am I? why am I here?  is there an absolute anything?, etc.) is what liberates the thinking person from the shackles of childish palliatives (like "Jesus loves me, so why ask hard questions"), as well as from the ignorance of ignoring the questions altogether because "science", or so-called "common sense," pretends to have already settled all such issues.

[Tank]

"Love" has meaning only in its opposition to "hate."  Just as every "up" is necessarily accompanied by a "down"; otherwise we'd need 'up-ladders'' to get up & 'down-ladders' to get back down.  This is a truth at the heart of (non-dual) Taoism, i.e. that all sticks come with two ends, and saw off as much of the "bad end" as you may (i.e. a "dualist"), you will never have an end to opposing ends.  So long as you embrace "love," you will engender it opposite.

Mumbo jumbo jumbo, jumbo jumbo.

A little confused by this TMP. Would you elaborate please 

[Hector Valdez]

YES!!! My secret plan to convert the membership of HAF to the holy roman empire has WORKED!!!!

There's nothing wrong with wishful thinking... 

[Asmodean]

YES!!! My secret plan to convert the membership of HAF to the holy roman empire has WORKED!!!!

Wait, you want to turn us German..?  ???

[Ali]

YES!!! My secret plan to convert the membership of HAF to the holy roman empire has WORKED!!!!

Wait, you want to turn us German..?  ???

Ich ben ein auslander! *Rocks out with giant guitar*