If you had to start a religion...

[Amicale]

What features would it have? How would you describe it? What would its most important tenets be?

Before anyone says "to start a religion, a god would have to exist in the first place!" consider that as skeptics, we believe that 100% of the religions out there were started by humans who, for better or worse, believed they had interesting ideas that deserved to be spread. So, what are your ideas?

Feel free to borrow bits and pieces from random philosophies that already exist. Standing on the shoulders of giants, and all that.

I'll post mine later, if the thread takes off.

[Stevil]

Important tenants

• Diversity is interesting
• Exploration is discovery
• Contemplative discussion is learning
• Tolerance is freedom
• Support is unity
• Freedom is desired
• Failure is a step towards success
• Truth is not absolute
• Life is what you make of it
• Concentrate on your life, let others concentrate on theirs

[Stevil]

I would best describe it as introspective, empowerment of the self, supportive and inclusive of all who want to be a part of it.

Its features would be that people could express themselves however they want art, music, theatre, sport etc. It would be a place to grow and share with others but there would be no prescription, no organisation defined goals for the individual.

It would be more like a community club than a religion.
Debating, toastmasters, educational presentations, field trips (e.g. skiing, sailing, hiking etc). Just a place to hang and enjoy diversity.

[Crow]

Stevil has it spot on. I will steal his list and add to it, though mine won't be as concise or elegant.

• No worship is necessary, just take a minuet to realise that you are part of nature.
• Moderation is key but also be moderate in excess as well.
• Stop trying to control, let your life happen.
• Forget about people's approval and you won't become their prisoner.
• Embrace what you do not understand and what confuses you. Its impossible to know everything.
• Knowledge is important but your knowledge matters little. Don't try to own what you have learned, share it and don't hold contempt for those that do not know.
• Know yourself, learn to distinguish what is a perception due to cultural influence and what is truly your own opinion.

[Edit] Some more.

• Before acting, think. Is it really necessary to act, if so do, if not don't.
• How important are your worries, assess things rationally and if they aren't truly important let them go and more on.
• Observe the world not just as the subject but the negative space that gives it use, and that they are equally important.
• Question everything.

[Ali]

Lift yourself up by uplifting other people.

[Hector Valdez]

You guys are horrible at creating religions.


1. Have some symbol or respect. Make it sacred and instill loyalty to it.
2. Leaders owe their allegiance to the people. To be godlike is to serve others.
3. Followers owe their allegiance to god/symbol, not leaders.
4. Set up temples/synagogue/mosques/centers of worship where followers can socialize.
5. Have leaders preside over important public rituals.


None of this is tied in any way to moral/ethical considerations, as it is understood that social mores will change as time passes, and therefore the moral reccomendations of the church should echo the moral sentiments of the people. Eventually, as morals progress, so will the teachings of religion.

[Amicale]

Interesting ideas, people! The parts about serving others, knowing yourself, celebrating diversity, creativity and tolerance, etc resound with me for sure.

If I had to start a religion, I'd incorporate the ideas above for sure, as well as add the following general ideas:

First and foremost, nobody would HAVE to join, and anyone's free to leave, or to stay but disagree. It's not a cult, there's no eternal penalty if you object (ie, some version of hell), it's basically just a way of life and if you like it, c'mon in. If it's time to move on, no problem... and if it doesn't appeal to you at all, okie dokie. Nothing below is forced or enforced officially; the only caveat is that if you join, we'd all assume you agreed with the majority of the ideas, and wanted to contribute to them. If we realized you didn't really care about the things we cared about, we'd maybe talk with you and suggest a different path, but the decision would be yours.

- If you'd like to believe in some sort of higher power, you're welcome to. If you don't want to, you're just as welcome to. The main thing is respect, open dialogue, and learning from one another. If you have a disagreement, go for it, just do it as respectfully as possible and realize that everyone's probably seeking community and understanding in one way or another. Speaking out loud about God/faith etc is fine; just explain yourself thoroughly, and let others question you, so everyone can learn. Ditto for speaking about non-belief.

- A strong focus on compassion and kindness, ie, trying to see things from different perspectives, being there for those who need a friend, lending a hand when one's needed, etc. This one's important to me because it seems to be humanity's wont to think that if we don't take care of others or treat them kindly, someone else will, or God will. Nope. It's on us to reach out and care for others. Even if I respect your belief in God, and you respect my nonbelief, it's still a generally good idea for everyone to pitch in and make the community a good one.

- Being a responsible steward of what/who we each have - our kids, relationships, the environment, our money, etc. Basically encouraging people to make careful, well-thought-out choices in the most important areas of their lives, so that their lives and the lives of those to come will be better off than previous generations were.

- Learning and growth are key. All kinds of different subjects could be explored, including science, philosophy, the human role in past history, etc. If we had organized meetings, anyone there would be free to speak, to discuss, to read a favourite selection. If there were lectures, it wouldn't be one person giving them all the time -- guest speakers of different philosophies would be fine, saying out loud that you didn't understand or disagreed would be fine... but actually engaging in the material and responding to it personally would be important. If there's one thing I strongly dislike, it's apathy -- not being bothered to think, basically.

- FUN! I think a religion should invite humans to celebrate life together, the ups and the downs. Community events, social events, celebrating new lives into the world and saying goodbye to old friends in a sendoff that they'd love -- all those would be strongly encouraged. Laughter, humour, getting to know people. Being silly from time to time, feeling safe to let your hair down. It would help to bond people, give them a group they could call their own. There's nothing I feel less comfortable in than in a group that feels like its their absolute duty to be 100% solemn/academic/rigid at all times.

- Seeing yourself as part of a greater whole. This is probably what would make it something closer to a religion than just a social club -- the need to reflect, see your place in nature, in the world, in your community, and figure out how your talents and ideas can contribute to that. The focus here would be on trying to see the best in others around us, reflecting together on what makes us thankful, what makes us angry or sad, what makes us hopeful -- as well as the best ways we can respond to those feelings and ideas as a community.

I might add more later, but that's the general gist of it. And yes, I'm aware that it smacks horribly of secular humanism, or Unitarian Universalism, or both. But there are probably ideas above that aren't intrinsically a part of either, per se, so... 

[Crow]

You guys are horrible at creating religions.


1. Have some symbol or respect. Make it sacred and instill loyalty to it.
2. Leaders owe their allegiance to the people. To be godlike is to serve others.
3. Followers owe their allegiance to god/symbol, not leaders.
4. Set up temples/synagogue/mosques/centers of worship where followers can socialize.
5. Have leaders preside over important public rituals.


None of this is tied in any way to moral/ethical considerations, as it is understood that social mores will change as time passes, and therefore the moral reccomendations of the church should echo the moral sentiments of the people. Eventually, as morals progress, so will the teachings of religion.

Ah but you need the conceptual basis to build the advertisement upon, all of the above needs to be relevant to the concept to make it successful and meaningful to attract people in the first place.

[Stevil]

You guys are horrible at creating religions.


1. Have some symbol or respect. Make it sacred and instill loyalty to it.
2. Leaders owe their allegiance to the people. To be godlike is to serve others.
3. Followers owe their allegiance to god/symbol, not leaders.
4. Set up temples/synagogue/mosques/centers of worship where followers can socialize.
5. Have leaders preside over important public rituals.


None of this is tied in any way to moral/ethical considerations, as it is understood that social mores will change as time passes, and therefore the moral reccomendations of the church should echo the moral sentiments of the people. Eventually, as morals progress, so will the teachings of religion.

Ah but you need the conceptual basis to build the advertisement upon, all of the above needs to be relevant to the concept to make it successful and meaningful to attract people in the first place.

Seems to have jumped straight into marketing and sales before we have defined a product.

[Tom62]

You guys are horrible at creating religions.


1. Have some symbol or respect. Make it sacred and instill loyalty to it.
2. Leaders owe their allegiance to the people. To be godlike is to serve others.
3. Followers owe their allegiance to god/symbol, not leaders.
4. Set up temples/synagogue/mosques/centers of worship where followers can socialize.
5. Have leaders preside over important public rituals.


None of this is tied in any way to moral/ethical considerations, as it is understood that social mores will change as time passes, and therefore the moral reccomendations of the church should echo the moral sentiments of the people. Eventually, as morals progress, so will the teachings of religion.

Ah but you need the conceptual basis to build the advertisement upon, all of the above needs to be relevant to the concept to make it successful and meaningful to attract people in the first place.

Seems to have jumped straight into marketing and sales before we have defined a product.

That is exactly the point. Religion is not about the product, but about selling wacky idea's. That is why marketing is more important than anything else. Crazy people love crazy stuff, so in my religion I'll give them plenty of it. The more the better. it doesn't even matter what kind of craziness there is on offer, because there will always be people who believe in any kind of shit. Morality is not relevant at all, because religion is more about getting filthy rich; attracting loads of young members of the opposite sex, who want to have sex with you; not paying any taxes and having lots of fun .

[Too Few Lions]

Yeah, I do think maybe you need all the crazy ideas, myths, supernatural things, rituals, silly outfits etc to be a proper religion. Otherwise all you've got is a philosophy, which is a good thing in my book as an atheist, but maybe it's not quite a religion.

[history_geek]

silly outfits

And these must include silly hats. It's not a religion worth the name without silly hats!

[Asmodean]

Asmoism.

All must bow facing the general direction of The Asmo and praise Him five times a day.
Ten thousand babies a year must be sacrificed in His honor. Gifts and donations can buy one's baby a get out of sacrifie free card.
Otherwise, do what thou wilst, then pay for it.

[Too Few Lions]

all hail the Asmo! Although I'm glad I have no children Asmo food.

If I had to name a few tenets I'd like to see in a religion, I'd agree with Amicale that fun and enjoyment should be paramount. Life should be enjoyed, not seen as some less important prelude to something after death. That's a real problem with Christianity and Islam, neither really embrace life, unlike a lot of the old pagan religions which celebrated with partying, drinking, dancing, music, feasting etc. Christianity has a bad strain of Platonic philosophy in it where the material world and material pleasures (particularly sex) are often seen as something corrupting of the soul.

people should strive to be happy and to try and enjoy their lives to the maximum, though not at anyone else's expense.

don't take themselves (or your religion or other beliefs) too seriously. The Bible and the Qur'an are so boring and serious. Yahweh, Jesus and Allah all seriously lack a sense of humour, they'd be such dull dinner guests. The Bible's a long book, but it seriously lacks humour, I don't think there's an intentionally humourous line in the whole work. Humour's good. Rather than commanding people kill the followers of other gods and destroy their altars and temples, Yahweh should have just said 'Mah, who cares' in the OT. The history of Christianity would most probably have been a whole lot less bloody and intolerant as a result.

Other things would be to teach tolerance to others of different beliefs, skin colour, sexuality etc, there's no absolute truth (already mentioned by Stevil), and don't ever treat any writing as sacred, they're just words written by people.

don't be greedy, if you have plenty and more than you need, give to those less well off.

always be open to new ideas, and be prepared to change and adapt to new environments.

Be socially and environmentally responsible, to create the best society for both yourself and others to live in.

[The Magic Pudding]

We'll be wanting to control em, at least keep 'em wandering too wrong.
Children gather round, how do we want things to be?
Did he push you over?
You don't like him, I don't think you should.
Some people will push you and expect you to thank them for it.
If you meet one look away, don't engage, they don't care for the now.