Should people keep cats as pets?

[Tank]

At the weekend I was watching a TV programme and the following statistic got quoted.
"There are 11 million domestic cats in the UK and they kill 60 million songbirds each year."

Assuming that the statistic is correct should humans keep cats as pets? They are obviously having a massive impact on wildlife. But on the upside how any mice and rats do they dispose of?

[Velma]

There's not enough information to really say.  How many songbirds are there in the UK?  Is 60 million a tiny percentage or a sizable one?

[Stevil]

Is this a sustainable rate of killing or will the songbirds become extinct?

Isn't this nature at work?

[Tank]

There's not enough information to really say.  How many songbirds are there in the UK?  Is 60 million a tiny percentage or a sizable one?

Good point. Don't know.

[Tank]

Is this a sustainable rate of killing or will the songbirds become extinct?

Isn't this nature at work?

Songbirds are in decline in the UK, that has been noted for a while. But whether it's cats and/or habitat decline is not something I've seen comments on.

If one considers humans and our behaviour as natural then yes this is a natural phenomenon. However apart from humans nature has no ability or desire to consciously self-regulate as it has no intelligence nor ability to predict effect from cause. If one considers human behaviour as unnatural then we are disturbing the normal balance of predator to prey where we house and feed a predator that then goes and hunts simply because it is in its nature to do so.

I don't have an answer, I'm just considering the issue. I think that if one wants to live in a world where our behaviour has as little impact as possible on the world around us then keeping millions of active and effective predators as pets may well not be a good idea.

[DeterminedJuliet]

People should keep cats as pets, but they should keep them indoors.

When I was working in the vet field, this was the official "stance" of most of the veterinary community. Besides the fact that it keeps the cats from killing other living things, it keeps the cats from getting injured (cat bite abscesses from cat fights are nasty ), from getting a whole host of nasty diseases (feline leukemia and FIV - feline "aids") and from over-populating. Plus, the average lifespan of an indoor cat is probably 15 years vs. 5-ish years for an outdoor cat.

I know a lot of people feel very strongly about letting their cat have "freedom", but honestly, it's for everyone's good if they're kept indoors. I have two kitties and the furthest they ever get outside is our apartment balcony.

[Buddy]

I think that cats should be and indoor pet. However, I know that a lot of the barns in my area have problems with mice getting into the grain and the cats have helped a lot with that. Plus they don't have to put out poison or traps that another animal or person could get into.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I think that cats should be and indoor pet. However, I know that a lot of the barns in my area have problems with mice getting into the grain and the cats have helped a lot with that. Plus they don't have to put out poison or traps that another animal or person could get into.

Yeah, I think that's fair. There will probably always be a need for "working cats".
But I doubt the bulk of 11 million kitties in the UK are barn kitties. Most people probably just let their domestic pet out and don't really think about it. That's what we used to do when we had cats growing up - now I'm the one nagging my parents about keeping their cats indoors.

[Tank]

I think that cats should be and indoor pet. However, I know that a lot of the barns in my area have problems with mice getting into the grain and the cats have helped a lot with that. Plus they don't have to put out poison or traps that another animal or person could get into.

I think cats used in those circumstances are justifiable.

[Velma]

Regardless of their impact on the UK's bird population, pet cats should be kept inside, steps should be taken to reduce to feral population (nonlethal whenever possible), and people should be educated on the benefits of keeping their pet cats indoors and getting them spayed and neutered.

[Stevil]

People should keep cats as pets, but they should keep them indoors.

When I was working in the vet field, this was the official "stance" of most of the veterinary community. Besides the fact that it keeps the cats from killing other living things, it keeps the cats from getting injured (cat bite abscesses from cat fights are nasty ), from getting a whole host of nasty diseases (feline leukemia and FIV - feline "aids") and from over-populating. Plus, the average lifespan of an indoor cat is probably 15 years vs. 5-ish years for an outdoor cat.

I know a lot of people feel very strongly about letting their cat have "freedom", but honestly, it's for everyone's good if they're kept indoors. I have two kitties and the furthest they ever get outside is our apartment balcony.

I don't like it when people confine an animal, birds in cages, dogs either locked up or always on a leash, cats always indoors.
Cat's killing their food, or getting into cat fights, that sounds like a decent cat's life to me.
Locked up, indoors, being feed processed meats, protected from the world and the world protected from them, that sounds like incarceration.

Are we to lock up all the tigers, lions, pumas, bobcats of the world too? How about the sharks, are we to lock them up? Protect them from the world and the world from them?
Of all human pets, I agree with having cats the most, because we can allow them to be free and simply choose to visit us once in a while, we don't have to destroy them as a creature of the world.

[Asmodean]

But on the upside how any mice and rats do they dispose of?

[DeterminedJuliet]

People should keep cats as pets, but they should keep them indoors.

When I was working in the vet field, this was the official "stance" of most of the veterinary community. Besides the fact that it keeps the cats from killing other living things, it keeps the cats from getting injured (cat bite abscesses from cat fights are nasty ), from getting a whole host of nasty diseases (feline leukemia and FIV - feline "aids") and from over-populating. Plus, the average lifespan of an indoor cat is probably 15 years vs. 5-ish years for an outdoor cat.

I know a lot of people feel very strongly about letting their cat have "freedom", but honestly, it's for everyone's good if they're kept indoors. I have two kitties and the furthest they ever get outside is our apartment balcony.

I don't like it when people confine an animal, birds in cages, dogs either locked up or always on a leash, cats always indoors.
Cat's killing their food, or getting into cat fights, that sounds like a decent cat's life to me.
Locked up, indoors, being feed processed meats, protected from the world and the world protected from them, that sounds like incarceration.

Are we to lock up all the tigers, lions, pumas, bobcats of the world too? How about the sharks, are we to lock them up? Protect them from the world and the world from them?
Of all human pets, I agree with having cats the most, because we can allow them to be free and simply choose to visit us once in a while, we don't have to destroy them as a creature of the world.

As a cat lover, I honestly do not believe that a cat suffers from an indoor life-style. If they're used to going outdoors, they'll want to go outdoors. If they're used to being indoors, they won't know any difference whatsoever.

Wild animals, such as sharks and tigers, display measurable signs of stress from captivity. In the 3 years I worked in the vet field, I never heard of an actual anxiety disorder diagnosed in a cat from having to stay indoors (at worst, they annoy the shit out of their owners for a while if they're already used to going outside).

And it's not just a matter of how the cat feels about it, it's also about being a responsible neighbour/member of the community. You might not care if your cat shits in someone else's garden and kills the birds at their bird feeder, but they probably do.  A lot of municipalities are actually creating by-laws that cats MUST be kept indoors for these types of reasons.

So, on the one hand you have: Cats going outside because we like the idea of cats having freedom.
And on the other you have: Disease, parasites (roundworms are highly transferable to humans, BTW. Not to mention tapeworms, hookworms, whipworms and fleas and ticks), injury, shorter-life spans, uncontrolled cat populations, messing with nature's biodiversity and pissed off neighbours.  

If we are going to take a creature and domesticate it, we're responsible for its welfare and effect on the world.

[Stevil]

So, on the one hand you have: Cats going outside because we like the idea of cats having freedom.
And on the other you have: Disease, parasites (roundworms are highly transferable to humans, BTW. Not to mention tapeworms, hookworms, whipworms and fleas and ticks), injury, shorter-life spans, uncontrolled cat populations, messing with nature's biodiversity and pissed off neighbours.  

If we are going to take a creature and domesticate it, we're responsible for its welfare and effect on the world.

I can play this game too.

On the one hand you have: Cats in captivity because we like the idea of keeping them same from freedom and keeping the world safe from having them free.
And on the other you have: Cats roaming outside, in plain sight of people, having sex with other cats, getting into fights, chasing and killing smaller animals and generally having a life. Being part of nature's biodiversity and generally not being troubled by neighbours.

I guess it depends on where you live and what mindset you have. I have never had a conversation with a person stating that they are pissed off by domestic cats roaming free.

[DeterminedJuliet]

So, on the one hand you have: Cats going outside because we like the idea of cats having freedom.
And on the other you have: Disease, parasites (roundworms are highly transferable to humans, BTW. Not to mention tapeworms, hookworms, whipworms and fleas and ticks), injury, shorter-life spans, uncontrolled cat populations, messing with nature's biodiversity and pissed off neighbours.  

If we are going to take a creature and domesticate it, we're responsible for its welfare and effect on the world.

I can play this game too.

On the one hand you have: Cats in captivity because we like the idea of keeping them same from freedom and keeping the world safe from having them free.
And on the other you have: Cats roaming outside, in plain sight of people, having sex with other cats, getting into fights, chasing and killing smaller animals and generally having a life. Being part of nature's biodiversity and generally not being troubled by neighbours.

I guess it depends on where you live and what mindset you have. I have never had a conversation with a person stating that they are pissed off by domestic cats roaming free.

Well, there are enough of them out there to warrant policy changes in a lot of municipalities.

I still don't see why cats getting into fights with other cats is a good thing? Do you think that makes them happy?  Do you think they care if they're in plain sight of people, either?  Most of your arguments are based on your guesses as to how cats feel or how you feel, not what is actually best for them in any measurable way. Also, biodiversity refers to  "totality of genes, species, and ecosystems of a region", so while saying that cats are "part" of biodiversity is technically correct but ignores the fact that they reduce biodiversity by killing off a large number of different species. Which is not "nature's way" because we are the ones that introduced domestic cats into these eco-systems.

Or would you rather un-checked colonies of diseased and starving feral cats everywhere and zero song-birds?

And hey, wait a second, aren't you the same guy who argued for human population control? I'm pretty sure all of those reproducing kitties out there aren't only having the offspring that they can support.

EDIT: Also, I just wanted to say that I'm a bit passionate about this, but I acknowledge that everyone has the right to do with their pets as they please (so long as they aren't neglecting/abusing them). I know the vast majority of people just want to do what they feel is best for their critters. I might sound like a bit of a hard ass about this here, but I can assure you, in "the real world" I don't usually go around giving people shit about what they do with their pets.