Student-organised talk on Sharia law at the University of London cancelled

[Tank]

Student-organised talk on Sharia law at the University of London cancelled following threats of violence

Yesterday evening, a talk on "Sharia Law and Human Rights" organised by the Atheism, Secularism and Humanism Society at Queen Mary, University London, had to be cancelled after threats of violence. The talk was due to be given by Anne Marie Waters of the One Law For All campaign, which campaigns against the use of Sharia in the UK.

The president of the society describes what happened:

   "Five minutes before the talk was due to start a man burst into the room holding a camera phone and for some seconds stood filming the faces of all those in the room. He shouted 'listen up all of you, I am recording this, I have your faces on film now, and I know where some of you live', at that moment he aggressively pushed the phone in someone's face and then said 'and if I hear that anything is said against the holy Prophet Muhammad, I will hunt you down.' He then left the room and two members of the audience applauded.

   "The same man then began filming the faces of Society members in the foyer and threatening to hunt them down if anything was said about Muhammad, he added that he knew where they lived and would murder them and their families. On leaving the building, he joined a large group of men, seemingly there to support him. We were told by security to stay in the Lecture Theatre for our own safety. On arriving back in the room I became aware that the doors that opened to the outside were still open and that people were still coming in. Several eye witnesses reported that when I was in the foyer a group of men came through the open doors, causing a disruption and making it clear that the room could not be secured. Unfortunately, the lack of security in the lecture theatre meant we and the audience had to leave and a Union representative informed the security that as students' lives had been threatened there was no way that the talk could go ahead.

   "This event was supposed to be an opportunity for people of different religions and perspectives to debate, at a university that is supposed to be a beacon of free speech and debate. Only two complaints had been made to the Union prior to the event, and the majority of the Muslim students at the event were incredibly supportive of it going ahead. These threats were an aggressive assault on freedom of speech and the fact that they led to the cancellation of our talk was severely disappointing for all of the religious and non-religious students in the room who wanted to engage in debate."

The police were contacted about the incident and the Society is waiting to hear how their investigation will proceed.

Jenny Bartle, president of the National Federation of Atheist, Humanist and Secular Student Societies (AHS), commented:

   "More and more atheist, humanist and secular student societies are forming on campuses across the UK and we deserve the same levels of respect as any other community. Our members have as much right as anyone else to participate in the free inquiry, discussion and debate which should exist in universities. The threats our members have received are both troubling and repugnant and we reject all attempts to counter debate with violence. At the same time, we welcome the support from across faiths that many of our societies experience on campus to help us secure the freedom to have our say, just as we support them in having the freedom to have theirs."

Andrew Copson, Chief Executive of the British Humanist Association gave support to the society:

   "The attempted intimidation that this society has experienced is shocking. Free expression, the free exchange of ideas and free debate are hallmarks of an open society; violence and the threat of violence should never be allowed to compromise that, especially in our universities. We will work to support our affiliate society at Queen Mary's and look forward to a speedy police investigation and resolution of this case."

I hope they catch the perp and throw the book at him (prefereable the Koran).

[Crow]

Luckily there is an insane amount of CCTV in London, I wouldn't be surprised if the person who threatened those at the debate with violence is now being monitored.

[Too Few Lions]

what an awful story, hopefully he'll be arrested and charged with something

[xSilverPhinx]

Luckily there is an insane amount of CCTV in London, I wouldn't be surprised if the person who threatened those at the debate with violence is now being monitored.

I hope so. Some people just have to be.

[Asmodean]

England has Her Majesty's Navy, yes? Get some of them to shell the asshole's car for a few minutes. That ought to get the message across.

[Buddy]

Would it be uncouth to call him a miserable fucking cunt?

[Genericguy]

It's unfortunate that such a small percent of Muslims are able to intimidate like this. I'm curious as to what you all might think the best solution would be to reduce/eliminate the need for Muslims to become militant. Also I'm interested in your crystal ball predictions on the future state of Islamic violence.

I live in the US and am against "the war on terror". It's a "war" that armys can't win. I feel it creates more militant muslims. I read somewhere that the US government brought books teaching violence and jihad into the middle east in order to run out the Russians (going off of memory, could be wrong). If books started this sudden burst of violence, I'm wondering if they can help to stop it. I know that's a very long term and subtle solution, but I think it's a long term goal requiring subtlety.

Obviously this small percent of Muslims have demonstrated their willingness to follow through with violence and we should be concerned in these situations. But I'm wondering what kind of an impact canceling the talk has on "wavering" militant Muslims. Do you think it gave courage to some, now willing to fight, violently, for what they believe in? How realistic would it have been to continue the talk and what would be the impact be on those "wavering" militant Muslims?

[xSilverPhinx]

Obviously this small percent of Muslims have demonstrated their willingness to follow through with violence and we should be concerned in these situations. But I'm wondering what kind of an impact canceling the talk has on "wavering" militant Muslims. Do you think it gave courage to some, now willing to fight, violently, for what they believe in? How realistic would it have been to continue the talk and what would be the impact be on those "wavering" militant Muslims?

I think so.

They should not allow themselves to be censored like this, even if it means going to another medium of debate where the debaters are protected (anonymity, etc.)

Sort of like what happened with the Draw Muhammad day (let censorship have the opposite effect), though it's probably best to leave Muhammad out of this one, and focus more heavily on militant muslims and how ridiculous they are. Going after Muhammad will only alienate other muslims and that isn't ideal.

The level of threat felt by muslims living in western societies to their lifestyle and worldview should be lessened (cultural crusade/jihad), but at the same time things such as Sharia Law can't be tolerated. How that could be done - I have no idea ???

*edited for clarity

[Firebird]

The level of threat by muslims living in western societies to their lifestyle and worldview should be lessened (cultural crusade/jihad), but at the same time things such as Sharia Law can't be tolerated. How that could be done - I have no idea ???

It's interesting that you don't see this kind of thing in the US. Immigrants assimilate much more easily in this country than in the UK or other EU countries. Oftentimes, I've read that there's many more job opportunities in the US for immigrants and less xenophobia as well than the EU. Ayaan Hirsi Ali had a lot to say about this as well; while I don't know if I agree with everything she says, it was interesting that she felt the government-supported religious schools in the Netherlands were one reason that immigrants turned inwards to their own communities rather than assimilate into the rest of society there.
What do those of you in the EU/UK feel? Is this accurate?

[Asmodean]

Communication can often be a problem. In Europe, there are several languages that are not all that high on people's learning list. Other than that, here, attempts are being made at assimilation, and those immigrants who work (Or come here for work in the first place) assimilate well. However, many can sit on their asses for years and get coin from we, the taxpayers. Those people tend to stick with their own kind, form cliques, live by their own laws as much as they can get away with and pretty much spit in the face of the very reasons that brought them here in the first place.

I think our policies need to be more strict and our generosity with coin needs to go.

[Tank]

Would it be uncouth to call him a miserable fucking cunt?

My dear! I am shocked to the very core by your course language! 

[Asmodean]

Would it be uncouth to call him a miserable fucking cunt?

My dear! I am shocked to the very core by your course language! 

You haven't heard The Asmo when he was changing tires some years ago on a disgustingly heavy Volvo and the jack sort of... Malfunctioned, no? THAT was a string of curses to behold in wonder! 

[Buddy]

Would it be uncouth to call him a miserable fucking cunt?

My dear! I am shocked to the very core by your course language! 

Oh, but I mean it in the most loving and friendly way possible.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

This is why I seriously question whether Islam can ever be integrated into a free society.

[Tank]

This is why I seriously question whether Islam can every be integrated into a free society.

That's an interesting question. One that for our kids will be far from academic. I did the last year of my degree (2011) in a class of 24 of which only 5 were NOT muslims. I'm quite pleased to say that the guy I got on best with was a Bosnian Muslim. He'd been in the war and had seen comrades killed just a few feet away and had taken his own share of lives. He's a really great guy. There was a Sufi Muslim guy who was just joy on legs. They were a great bunch of people.

There is a very vocal and potentially violent segment of disaffected youth that get a lot of bad press that smears on the majority of Muslims who are just trying to get along.

However the Islamic meme has been very carefully crafted by Mohamed then refined over the centuries and in its worst Saudi/Iranian/Afghanistani/Pakistani guises is an absolute anathema to western civilisation and freedom of expression.

A very difficult problem to even quantify let alone solve.