Little Kids and Cussing on TV

[Tank]

Ok. So is the word 'Glarsmit' offensive or not?

I don't think any words are offensive. In order for me to even think something is offensive, it would need to be more than just a word, but someone expressing that they think something offensive about me... and then it's not the word that's offensive, it's what the other person meant. Words in themselves are pieces of a thought, much like flour is pretty useless on its own but cake is a delicious lie.

Then it appears we will have to agree to differ 

[Tank]

By the way, what is 'Glarsmit'?

A nonsense word I made up to illustrate that the meaning of a word is only conveyed if you know what it means before you read/hear it. Thus any random collection of letters/sounds conveys no meaning, the actual letters in the word are simply the symbolic construct humans use to communicate meaning.

[Buddy]

I do decree that glarsmit now means to be utterly taken by surprise at the sight of a never before see word. 

[Tank]

I do decree that glarsmit now means to be utterly taken by surprise at the sight of a never before see word. 

[Ali]

I do decree that glarsmit now means to be utterly taken by surprise at the sight of a never before see word. 

Motion seconded and passed!

[The Magic Pudding]

I do decree that glarsmit now means to be utterly taken by surprise at the sight of a never before see word. 

It kind of works but glarsmit isn't very catchy.

[Davin]

By the way, what is 'Glarsmit'?

A nonsense word I made up to illustrate that the meaning of a word is only conveyed if you know what it means before you read/hear it. Thus any random collection of letters/sounds conveys no meaning, the actual letters in the word are simply the symbolic construct humans use to communicate meaning.

But I had never disputed this, nor would I ever say that random sounds on their own convey meaning. This, however works in favor of of my point though, that it's the meaning that matters and not the sounds/letters. Which makes it ridiculous to allow, "I think you're a horrible person and I have very low regard for you" when "you miserable fucking cunt" is not. Essentially the same meaning, however because of people's unreasonable bias towards words, one is "acceptable" and the other is "offensive".

[Tank]

By the way, what is 'Glarsmit'?

A nonsense word I made up to illustrate that the meaning of a word is only conveyed if you know what it means before you read/hear it. Thus any random collection of letters/sounds conveys no meaning, the actual letters in the word are simply the symbolic construct humans use to communicate meaning.

But I had never disputed this, nor would I ever say that random sounds on their own convey meaning. This, however works in favor of of my point though, that it's the meaning that matters and not the sounds/letters. Which makes it ridiculous to allow, "I think you're a horrible person and I have very low regard for you" when "you miserable fucking cunt" is not. Essentially the same meaning, however because of people's unreasonable bias towards words, one is "acceptable" and the other is "offensive".

Ah! I understand what you're getting at now, I think. I think that the two examples that you give are not actually emotionally equialent. To me the level of the aggression in "you miserable fucking cunt" being far higher than theother phrase. And to me that is because of the use of 'taboo' language.

[Asmodean]

I'm not sure if most pre teens would be well served by witnessing their parents going through the motions.

The few parents I know who pretty much did it the Asmo way got reactions ranging from "Oh." to a slightly creeped out "Yuck!"

Harm in that, The Asmo sees not.

[Davin]

By the way, what is 'Glarsmit'?

A nonsense word I made up to illustrate that the meaning of a word is only conveyed if you know what it means before you read/hear it. Thus any random collection of letters/sounds conveys no meaning, the actual letters in the word are simply the symbolic construct humans use to communicate meaning.

But I had never disputed this, nor would I ever say that random sounds on their own convey meaning. This, however works in favor of of my point though, that it's the meaning that matters and not the sounds/letters. Which makes it ridiculous to allow, "I think you're a horrible person and I have very low regard for you" when "you miserable fucking cunt" is not. Essentially the same meaning, however because of people's unreasonable bias towards words, one is "acceptable" and the other is "offensive".

Ah! I understand what you're getting at now, I think. I think that the two examples that you give are not actually emotionally equialent. To me the level of the aggression in "you miserable fucking cunt" being far higher than theother phrase. And to me that is because of the use of 'taboo' language.

But why is that language "taboo" in the first place? Can you provide a description of which words are "bad" words to let me know how to determine which words they are without using the words as an example?

This is not meant as a Socratic Method or some kind of trick. The reason I ask for this definition is that I cannot find one, yet people act as if one should not say certain words. I don't think such a definition exists, just lists of words. Which leads me to think that the words themselves have no offensive nature on their own, it's merely because people treat their offensiveness as if it were sacred and thereby use that to irrationally attempt to limit my speech. Other people attempting to limit my speech is something I find far more offensive than any word. And people supporting that certain words have a sacred offensiveness only helps people to limit my speech.

[Tank]

By the way, what is 'Glarsmit'?

A nonsense word I made up to illustrate that the meaning of a word is only conveyed if you know what it means before you read/hear it. Thus any random collection of letters/sounds conveys no meaning, the actual letters in the word are simply the symbolic construct humans use to communicate meaning.

But I had never disputed this, nor would I ever say that random sounds on their own convey meaning. This, however works in favor of of my point though, that it's the meaning that matters and not the sounds/letters. Which makes it ridiculous to allow, "I think you're a horrible person and I have very low regard for you" when "you miserable fucking cunt" is not. Essentially the same meaning, however because of people's unreasonable bias towards words, one is "acceptable" and the other is "offensive".

Ah! I understand what you're getting at now, I think. I think that the two examples that you give are not actually emotionally equialent. To me the level of the aggression in "you miserable fucking cunt" being far higher than theother phrase. And to me that is because of the use of 'taboo' language.

But why is that language "taboo" in the first place? Can you provide a description of which words are "bad" words to let me know how to determine which words they are without using the words as an example?

This is not meant as a Socratic Method or some kind of trick. The reason I ask for this definition is that I cannot find one, yet people act as if one should not say certain words. I don't think such a definition exists, just lists of words. Which leads me to think that the words themselves have no offensive nature on their own, it's merely because people treat their offensiveness as if it were sacred and thereby use that to irrationally attempt to limit my speech. Other people attempting to limit my speech is something I find far more offensive than any word. And people supporting that certain words have a sacred offensiveness only helps people to limit my speech.

There isn't a 'list' AFAIK. I think it's a matter of the social group one lives in and the norms within that group overlaid with the circumstances and subjet matter of the discussion taking place. It's much easier to tell a kid "That's a bad word" than to go through a detailed discussion of when some words are acceptable and when they are not. As one gets older one normally learns by example when and why to use particular language and that goes for all language 'bad' or not.

[Davin]

There isn't a 'list' AFAIK. I think it's a matter of the social group one lives in and the norms within that group overlaid with the circumstances and subjet matter of the discussion taking place. It's much easier to tell a kid "That's a bad word" than to go through a detailed discussion of when some words are acceptable and when they are not. As one gets older one normally learns by example when and why to use particular language and that goes for all language 'bad' or not.

Then I suppose it's my failure, because I can't understand the examples. I think raising a kid saying, "that is a bad word" without knowing why it is a bad word, is not a good example of critical thinking. When one learns to choose their language based on a situation, that should be their choice, not the choice of others (unless in someone else's home, who decides to evict anyone for any reason... because it's their home). Which brings me back to why I find it irrational: the word is offensive because poeple think the word is offensive. I guess there is no more to go into on this, you and others seem to hold the words as offensive without questioning, and I'm just supposed accept that they're offensive merely because you and others take offense to them. Much like Muslims take drawing cartoons of Muhammad offensive and want everyone to not draw them. I'll admit that the comparison is extreme in regards to how some Muslims had violently reacted, but the essential nature of the argument is the same.

[Tank]

There isn't a 'list' AFAIK. I think it's a matter of the social group one lives in and the norms within that group overlaid with the circumstances and subjet matter of the discussion taking place. It's much easier to tell a kid "That's a bad word" than to go through a detailed discussion of when some words are acceptable and when they are not. As one gets older one normally learns by example when and why to use particular language and that goes for all language 'bad' or not.

Then I suppose it's my failure, because I can't understand the examples. I think raising a kid saying, "that is a bad word" without knowing why it is a bad word, is not a good example of critical thinking. When one learns to choose their language based on a situation, that should be their choice, not the choice of others (unless in someone else's home, who decides to evict anyone for any reason... because it's their home). Which brings me back to why I find it irrational: the word is offensive because poeple think the word is offensive. I guess there is no more to go into on this, you and others seem to hold the words as offensive without questioning, and I'm just supposed accept that they're offensive merely because you and others take offense to them. Much like Muslims take drawing cartoons of Muhammad offensive and want everyone to not draw them. I'll admit that the comparison is extreme in regards to how some Muslims had violently reacted, but the essential nature of the argument is the same.

Interesting points. While I may consider/understand a word to be in the group generally considered 'offensive' that doesn't mean I find them offensive if used in general conversation or say hearing them on the TV. In those contexts I don't find any word offensive. But I am aware that others might. Thus I told my kids that some words shouldn't be used on a day-to-day basis.

[Davin]

Interesting points. While I may consider/understand a word to be in the group generally considered 'offensive' that doesn't mean I find them offensive if used in general conversation or say hearing them on the TV. In those contexts I don't find any word offensive. But I am aware that others might. Thus I told my kids that some words shouldn't be used on a day-to-day basis.

Ah yes, my baseless assumptions should be corrected. I can understand letting children be aware of what others might find offensive, I think it's a good trait to be moderately considerate of others.

[Siz]

If I may interject, one more angle of this argument not yet expressed is the stigma attached to use of certain words in society at large. That is reason enough to curtail children's use of profanity.

I refrain from using 'bad' language in front of my son because I don't want him using the same words. Not because it is itself offensive to other people (though, of course it is), but because he will be viewed much more negatively by the people around him. So when I say "don't use that word", and he replies "why not?", my answer is "because people hearing you use that word will think you're not very clever". That is the fact of it. The explanation is accepted - and heeded with positive understanding.

I find great pleasure in swearing around friends (and other people who already know I'm not very clever), but I have learned the situations where it might be to my detriment (at a work meeting for example) to use bad language. My children, at their age, are incapable of making such a judgement so I therefore consider it important to disallow profanity in any situation.