Are you really an atheist?

[Sandra Craft]

From a christian perspective I am 100% atheist.

Now there's where the question gets interesting -- from what perspective are we discussing god?  I'm assuming the Xtian one because the OP is a Xtian and that puts his god, along with all other personal gods, in the highly improbable category for me.  On the other hand, if this is the Spinoza perspective -- that god is the sum total of the physical laws of the universe -- then yes, I believe in that god.

[Egor]

Now there's where the question gets interesting -- from what perspective are we discussing god?  I'm assuming the Xtian one because the OP is a Xtian and that puts his god, along with all other personal gods, in the highly improbable category for me.  On the other hand, if this is the Spinoza perspective -- that god is the sum total of the physical laws of the universe -- then yes, I believe in that god.

Spinoza's idea of God is a monstic entity. In other words, it's not that God is the sum total of physical laws, but rather that all things that exist are of God's substance. In other words, all that exists is God.

[Tank]

It's perfectly acceptably for theists to carry out mass murders if their particular god tells them to.

For the record, my God doesn't tell anyone to commit mass murders.  If anyone thinks that he has told him to do such a thing, he has misunderstood the message.  Jesus never told anyone to kill anyone, and chastised his disciples when they wanted to act like the OT prophet Elijah by calling down fire from heaven to destroy people.

But what would you do IF you were 100% sure that your God did want you to kill. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. Would you do what you felt your God wanted you to do? Would you, in the final analysis, with all other options and avenues explored kill because your God wanted you to?

Your hypothetical makes no sense to me - it's like saying "assume that 2+2 really did equal 5". But, to play along, no, I'm just not the killin kind - there would have to be a very good reason - like somebody messin with my grandkids.  God would have to ask someone else if he wanted a hit job. But since that is 100% contrary to my concept of God, I can't imagine that ever happening.  If I thought I heard that message, I would assume that I was wrong.

That's what I hoped you'd say.

[Egor]

That's what I hoped you'd say.

It's funny. What is most intollerable about religion is that people might talk to God and God might talk to them. Because when that starts to happen you can't have any centralized control of people. And yet that's exactly the relationship Jesus taught we should have with God. So much so that Jesus preached the utter dissolution of the family heirarchy, suggested we give our money back to the government and follow God, and suggested we forget the central authority of the church and follow God in spirit and in truth.

People don't read the Gospels very closely. Churches only preach the safe stuff Jesus said. Paintings are always with Jesus smiling with a child on his knee and a lamb somewhere nearby. But Jesus said plainly that he did not come to bring peace on the earth but a sword that would break up all these institutions of civilization. Jesus was an anarchist in the extreme. But you won't hear that preached from the pulpit. Why?

Because individual spirits listening to God are too dangerous. The world wants to control its people so that it can use them.

If people would take a minute to really look at the implications of Jesus' teachings they would come to see, pretty quickly, that if Jesus were alive today, the Church and government would rise up and nail him to a cross all over again. They'd have no choice, not if they wanted to survive anyway. You can't have government and church and familiy all competing to control the individual and then have someone like Jesus coming along telling people to think of God as their only father.

By the way, when all you atheists talk about the "Christian" God, you should realize that the only version of God that matters is how God is revealed in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Until you read the Gospels for yourself, absent any interpretations from anyone other than yourself, you will never see God for what he really is. When you have seen Christ--you have seen God.

[Crow]

Finally! a Christian that actually interprets the bible as I see it. However I think its absolutely vile and disgusting and that is why I dislike Christianity so much.

I am glad most interpenetrate the bible like Ecurb Noselrub otherwise we would still be living in the dark ages.

[Stevil]

[Jesus] suggested we give our money back to the government and follow God

And yet here you are, typing on a computer (which costs money), using the internet (which costs money), indulging in talking to us rather than following god.

Unless of course you are using your employer's computer, your employer's time which would be considered theft which presumably is one of the ten commandment on what thou shalt not do.

Oh well.

[Crow]

Egor are you a poe?

[Egor]

And yet here you are, typing on a computer (which costs money), using the internet (which costs money), indulging in talking to us rather than following god.

Unless of course you are using your employer's computer, your employer's time which would be considered theft which presumably is one of the ten commandment on what thou shalt not do.

Oh well.

A. It's mine and my internet card, but my employer doesn't mind even if I use the company computer, so it's not theft any way you look at it.

B. Money is money. Who cares? We need what we need. But I seek first the Kingdom of God, and he has added all these other things unto me. And talking to you is following God.

[Egor]

Egor are you a poe?

I've recently learned what that means. And no, I'm not.

[Crow]

Ok, your viewpoints seemed slightly too stereotypical of a fundamentalist combined with the aggressive style of writing made me think that you may have been one.

[Tristan Jay]

Egor, can you please go further back and review the comments between now and the last time you were in to comment.  There are things that myself and others would like you to respond to, if you please.  Thanks.

[xSilverPhinx]

Finally! a Christian that actually interprets the bible as I see it. However I think its absolutely vile and disgusting and that is why I dislike Christianity so much.

I am glad most interpenetrate the bible like Ecurb Noselrub otherwise we would still be living in the dark ages.

Seconded.

[Asmodean]

Finally! a Christian that actually interprets the bible as I see it. However I think its absolutely vile and disgusting and that is why I dislike Christianity so much.

I am glad most interpenetrate the bible like Ecurb Noselrub otherwise we would still be living in the dark ages.

Seconded.

Noselrub has shown himself to be a fime addition to the forum, gotta give him that.  AND Noselrub sounds cool.

[Crocoduck]

Why should anyone believe the first 4 books of the new testament? Who wrote them and when? The most conservative place the earliest one at at AD 60. I whole generation after Jesus died.

[Whitney]

By the way, when all you atheists talk about the "Christian" God, you should realize that the only version of God that matters is how God is revealed in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Until you read the Gospels for yourself, absent any interpretations from anyone other than yourself, you will never see God for what he really is. When you have seen Christ--you have seen God.

You are wrong in assuming that if someone doesn't accept Jesus that they simply haven't read the gospels.  Most of the members here have read it; a majority of ex-christians will tell you that reading the bible is what made them have to quit accepting it as real.


Now, are you going to provide us with your obvious evidence for God existing or do you now agree that it is justifiable to not have a belief in god when there is absence of both objective and individual evidence?