What if there were no Hell?

[Happy_Is_Good]

What if there were no concept of a fiery and eternal Hell in the Islamic and Christian Religions?  Do you think these religions would number in the Billions as they do now, or be closer to the Jewish population of about 15 Million?

Could Christianity and Islam survive in any meaningful form without the concept of Hell?

[The Magic Pudding]

My feeling is they wouldn't be as successful, the Hindus have one or many as well.
Even some Buddhists seem to require one.

[xSilverPhinx]

An interesting question. I think that the control and fear inducing characterisitc of religions that preach fire and brimstone does play a huge part in why it's so popular. On the other hand, heaven is an excellent incentive for animals who are aware that they will die.

Expanding a bit, my guess is if there was no such thing as heaven or hell in any religion, then some of the religious, under certain stressful circumstances, would still have existential angst. There has to be an eternal "point" to it all for some.

[MadBomr101]

I see hell as the spiritual penalty clause woven into the religious contract.  Believe in god and you will be deliriously happy in heaven forever is an attractive promise but it's a more effective sales pitch if there's a penalty, especially a stiff one.  Now you can choose between eternal happiness or eternal torment.  Obviously everyone's gonna choose to be happy.  Hell helps to focus people's choice and sell heaven and god.

Take hell out of the equation and I think religion would still sell pretty well based on the promise of eternal life and happiness but it's still best to give the people something really scary to help steer them toward that decision anyway.

It's just good business strategy.

[Egor]

What if there were no concept of a fiery and eternal Hell in the Islamic and Christian Religions?  Do you think these religions would number in the Billions as they do now, or be closer to the Jewish population of about 15 Million?

Could Christianity and Islam survive in any meaningful form without the concept of Hell?

Jesus is pretty much the one who started all the talk about hell, so I think his word on the subject matters. It's not that the Christian religion used the concept of hell; it's that Jesus is very clear on the subject of it. And remember there was no Christian Church or even the idea of one at the time of Jesus Christ or for at least 20 or 30 years after his resurrection.

So, why blame the Church. They’re just telling it like it is and always has been from the very originator of the faith. Your argument is with Jesus Christ.

[Sweetdeath]

Well~~ Jesus is dead, isn't he?

In general I agree with the idea that both concepts of heaven/hell are used as a behavior tool. It's very easy to control people through fear. I find it so laughable anyone passed the age of 6 would believe in Hell.

[Happy_Is_Good]

Jesus is pretty much the one who started all the talk about hell, so I think his word on the subject matters.

Is Jesus gonna' be making any public appearances soon where I can ask - like a sermon, speech or debate?  (Hey...is Jesus sparky enough to risk debating Christopher Hitchens in public?!)

Or...Is there a 1-800 Number I can call to ask?  Is there a post Office Address I can mail?  E-mail?

It's not that the Christian religion used the concept of hell; it's that Jesus is very clear on the subject of it. And remember there was no Christian Church or even the idea of one at the time of Jesus Christ or for at least 20 or 30 years after his resurrection.

What...the Christian Church - any Christian Church - never used the concept of Hell...much less fire and brimstone?  Isn't this a bit disingenuous on your part?

So, why blame the Church. They're just telling it like it is and always has been from the very originator of the faith. Your argument is with Jesus Christ.

Well...I never blamed the "Church" of anything - you stuck that in there on your own volition.  Furthermore, if you think I got an argument with "Jesus", then please tell me where to find him - otherwise I got to assume he's a myth.

[history_geek]

Well to begin with the bible is pretty obscure about hell, the only references I remember describing it as a place of "gnashing of teeth" and "lake of fire", both of which I think are found in the NT. Besides that, it is sometimes reffered to as "Hades" and I think once as "Tartarus", which is the lowest level of Hades. Just check the greek mythology for more information   On the other hand, the Jewish scriptures speak about "Sheol", which was a lot more like Hades, wihout the fun little activites. It was just a place of darkness where everyone went, no matter what one did in life, and where one was "removed from the light of God", and accorading to wiki when the hebrew scriptures were translated to greek, they used the word "Hades" instead....

However, our current vivid image of hell with it's purgatories and special places for defined punishments are mostly based on a certain poem collection called "Dante's Hell", which the Catholic chruch jumped on and embraced as doctirine and which the churches that sperated from it inherited to some extent.

So in other words, Christianity is not different from most other religions that take something old from other religions, and add to it or twist it so that it fits their doctrines. Take the mentioning of "Hades" as an example. It was a consept that was well known around the Mediterenian and most likely across the Roman Empire, so it was easy to use to rell people what they had in mind, and it's easier to understand why people were readdy to believe in a "saviour" that would spare them from eternal boredom.

Just believe...

[Happy_Is_Good]

Well to begin with the bible is pretty obscure about hell...

Yeah, but not about the eternal burning and suffering part - the Bible is quite clear that Hell is about eternal burning and suffering - and this is to be found in lots of places in the New testament.

[Stevil]

It is strange that they consider Satan and Hell to be bad, and they hold hate for them.
If you think about the theory then you could only conclude that Satan and Hell are crucial to god's plan. God decides who gets tortured for eternity, god wants people to prove their worthiness by rejecting evil. Without Satan god would be impotent and meaningless. Christians ought to praise Satan almost on equal par with their god.

[Too Few Lions]

Well to begin with the bible is pretty obscure about hell, the only references I remember describing it as a place of "gnashing of teeth" and "lake of fire", both of which I think are found in the NT. Besides that, it is sometimes reffered to as "Hades" and I think once as "Tartarus", which is the lowest level of Hades. Just check the greek mythology for more information   On the other hand, the Jewish scriptures speak about "Sheol", which was a lot more like Hades, wihout the fun little activites. It was just a place of darkness where everyone went, no matter what one did in life, and where one was "removed from the light of God", and accorading to wiki when the hebrew scriptures were translated to greek, they used the word "Hades" instead....

Yeah, that's the way I understood it too. Jesus taught that he was going to immanently return (within a lifetime) and destroy the Earth with fire, he didn't say that much about heaven and hell.

It was certainly a Christian doctrine long before Dante though. Justin Martyr was one of the most prominent early Christian writers (mid 2nd century), and there's nothing he liked more than reminding the Greeks and Romans that they'd all burn in hell unless they became Christian. Stuff like 'the unjust and intemperate shall be punished in eternal fire, but that the virtuous and those who lived like Christ shall dwell with God in a state that is free from suffering' (the opening from his second apology to the Romans). No wonder the early Christians were often disliked, as they went around telling everyone else their gods weren't real and they were going to burn in hell!

I think the carrot and the stick approach of heaven and hell has definitely worked for Christianity and Islam, if you look at Islam it's far worse than Christianity. The Qur'an has very little else in it other than retelling Jewish myths while constantly repeating the mantra that heavenly bliss awaits believers, while eternal torture and flames awaits unbelievers *yawn*

[OldGit]

An interesting question. I think that the control and fear inducing characterisitc of religions that preach fire and brimstone does play a huge part in why it's so popular.

Before the Reformation, English churches had paintings on every wall surface.  They were painted over by the Puritans, but in many places some have been revealed.  Quite a lot of these pictures are of sinners burning in hell or being dragged away by fearsome devils.  The reason is obvious.
In Catholic and Orthodox churches today you don't see that - I've often wondered why.

[xSilverPhinx]

It is strange that they consider Satan and Hell to be bad, and they hold hate for them.
If you think about the theory then you could only conclude that Satan and Hell are crucial to god's plan. God decides who gets tortured for eternity, god wants people to prove their worthiness by rejecting evil. Without Satan god would be impotent and meaningless. Christians ought to praise Satan almost on equal par with their god.

Reminds me of a Brazilian poet (affectionately called "Hell's Mouth" which was the pseudonym he signed some of his poems with) who said that god exists to pardon sins so that was reason enough to keep on sinning!

He of course was much more elaborate...

[xSilverPhinx]

An interesting question. I think that the control and fear inducing characterisitc of religions that preach fire and brimstone does play a huge part in why it's so popular.

Before the Reformation, English churches had paintings on every wall surface.  They were painted over by the Puritans, but in many places some have been revealed.  Quite a lot of these pictures are of sinners burning in hell or being dragged away by fearsome devils.  The reason is obvious.
In Catholic and Orthodox churches today you don't see that - I've often wondered why.

Counter Reformation, perhaps? They are a business, after all...don't want to scare away some potential clients when better religious ideas are popping up all over the marketplace.

Maybe fear is not so good for popularity in a oligarchy after all.

[Sweetdeath]

It is strange that they consider Satan and Hell to be bad, and they hold hate for them.
If you think about the theory then you could only conclude that Satan and Hell are crucial to god's plan. God decides who gets tortured for eternity, god wants people to prove their worthiness by rejecting evil. Without Satan god would be impotent and meaningless. Christians ought to praise Satan almost on equal par with their god.

I hought about this a lot growing up. The whole "if god created Lucifer and hell, then he is ok with letting bad things happen."
Either way, it's annoying to think about because it's such a paradox and contraddiction.