Swedish Child Murderer

[Ecurb Noselrub]

First, what's happening in Sweden - I thought everything there was peace and love?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/14/swedish-boy-10-confesses-to-strangling-four-year-old-with-jump-rope/?test=latestnews

Second, why are Swedes naming their children "Texas"?  

Third, I hope that Henning Mankell writes a book about this.  Great author.

Fourth, what a tragedy.

[history_geek]

First, what's happening in Sweden - I thought everything there was peace and love?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/14/swedish-boy-10-confesses-to-strangling-four-year-old-with-jump-rope/?test=latestnews

Second, why are Swedes naming their children "Texas"?  

Third, I hope that Henning Mankell writes a book about this.  Great author.

Fourth, what a tragedy.

Firstly, unfortunately our western neighbour has cases like these, just like every other country in the world, thought this is quite an expetional one...

Secondly, no, that is not a very usual name...

Thirdly, can't remember that author

Fouthly, agreed, though this should have been the first point....

[Tank]

First, what's happening in Sweden - I thought everything there was peace and love?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/14/swedish-boy-10-confesses-to-strangling-four-year-old-with-jump-rope/?test=latestnews

Second, why are Swedes naming their children "Texas"?  

Third, I hope that Henning Mankell writes a book about this.  Great author.

Fourth, what a tragedy.

Why? I'd have though in your line of work you'd be well aware that some people a good, some are bad and some very bad. In addition the moral compass of a 10 year old is not fully formed so the terms good and bad have no meaning do they?

This was the problem of the two kids that killed James Bulger. Prior to this case the prosecution had to show that the accused child understood that what they had done was wrong. This was known as doli incapax. The judge in the Bulger case struck down doli incapax and as a result England (not the UK) has the lowest age of criminal responsibility (10) in the Western world. A huge disgrace to our legal system in my opinion.

[Asmodean]

There was a hostage situation in the town I moved out of this summer. A Swede was behind it...

They should really consider not mixing any more LSD in their water supply 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Why? I'd have though in your line of work you'd be well aware that some people a good, some are bad and some very bad. In addition the moral compass of a 10 year old is not fully formed so the terms good and bad have no meaning do they?

Yes, I'm aware of human nature. It's just that I've heard so much about how different Scandanavians are.  That image is starting to crumble.

I'm not so sure a 10 year-old has no concept of the meaning of good and bad.  Their moral compass is not fully formed, this is true. But I would suspect that very few of them would not understand that killing a 4 year-old is "bad" in some sense.  That being said, I agree with your assessment of the English judge's decision.

[Tank]

Why? I'd have though in your line of work you'd be well aware that some people a good, some are bad and some very bad. In addition the moral compass of a 10 year old is not fully formed so the terms good and bad have no meaning do they?

Yes, I'm aware of human nature. It's just that I've heard so much about how different Scandanavians are.  That image is starting to crumble.

I'm not so sure a 10 year-old has no concept of the meaning of good and bad.  Their moral compass is not fully formed, this is true. But I would suspect that very few of them would not understand that killing a 4 year-old is not "bad" in some sense.  That being said, I agree with your assessment of the English judge's decision.

I think the Scandinavians have been portraid as an ideal for a while and the recent shooting in Norway and now this are taking the shine off.

I'm sure that kids younger that 10 do have a sense of right (acceptable) and wrong (unacceptable). My grandson, who is just one, and I have come to an agreement over my glasses, he doesn't grab my glasses and I don't shout 'Boo' very loudly at him when he tries to grab them. He also now realises that when he attempts to grab the printer he gets slightly wet from my water pistol. Skinner would have been proud of me 

[Buddy]

I think the Scandinavians have been portraid as an ideal for a while and the recent shooting in Norway and now this are taking the shine off.

I'm sure that kids younger that 10 do have a sense of right (acceptable) and wrong (unacceptable). My grandson, who is just one, and I have come to an agreement over my glasses, he doesn't grab my glasses and I don't shout 'Boo' very loudly at him when he tries to grab them. He also now realises that when he attempts to grab the printer he gets slightly wet from my water pistol. Skinner would have been proud of me 

Hey, if it works for cats, why not kids? 

[Tank]

I think the Scandinavians have been portraid as an ideal for a while and the recent shooting in Norway and now this are taking the shine off.

I'm sure that kids younger that 10 do have a sense of right (acceptable) and wrong (unacceptable). My grandson, who is just one, and I have come to an agreement over my glasses, he doesn't grab my glasses and I don't shout 'Boo' very loudly at him when he tries to grab them. He also now realises that when he attempts to grab the printer he gets slightly wet from my water pistol. Skinner would have been proud of me 

Hey, if it works for cats, why not kids? 

Exactly! It's a lot more effective than shouting and smacking and has a greater 'reach'!

[Willow]

It doesn't work for kids, not in the long run, not when you don't get to find out.  Whether it's zapping with a water pistol or sending to the naughty step, if children avoid doing something for fear of reprisal, they will avoid getting caught.  We explain why we impose rules and give reasons, then when they are in that situation where there is nobody threatening them, they will not strangle the other child, because of the effect it would have on the other child, not because they will get another sticker.

Behaviourism has a lot to answer for, unless you are trying to train a dog.

[Tank]

It doesn't work for kids, not in the long run, not when you don't get to find out.  Whether it's zapping with a water pistol or sending to the naughty step, if children avoid doing something for fear of reprisal, they will avoid getting caught.  We explain why we impose rules and give reasons, then when they are in that situation where there is nobody threatening them, they will not strangle the other child, because of the effect it would have on the other child, not because they will get another sticker.

Behaviourism has a lot to answer for, unless you are trying to train a dog.

Skinner et al do have a lot to answer for. I expect in due course to have my grandson spray me. With very young kids they aren't capable of understanding explainations it does appear to work. In the long run it doesn't work, but it does appear to work in the sense of getting the kid to realise that an adult can interact with them beyond their physical reach. One interesting affect is now grandson will check where the water pistol is before doing something he has never done before, but is similar to, something he has got a squirt for previously. But he will go right ahead and do something that does not come into the 'get sprayed' category.

[xSilverPhinx]

He could begin to think that getting sprayed is fun - then you'd be in trouble

[Tank]

He could begin to think that getting sprayed is fun - then you'd be in trouble

That thought had crossed my mind