Is circumcision child abuse?

[Ecurb Noselrub]

The original circumcision in the Bible was that of Abraham, and he had it done as an adult.  If adult men want it done, let them do it.  The circumcision ritual of the Torah only applied to Jews, anyway, and there is nothing in the New Testament that requires it.  If Christians would realize that the Torah doesn't apply to them, they would probably stop circumcising their male children. 

[DeterminedJuliet]

Yeah, poking holes in kids for no good reason does seem high-handed even for a parent.

...Except of course when the kid is a baby and the holes are for the roasting spit.

After all, we atheists do have a reputation to maintain 

Well, that's lunch not body modification.  And of course, that's different.

Exactly, "cosmetic purposes" unacceptable. For "snacky purposes". Well, that's a totally different thing.

I have heard it said that male circumcision "increases the sexual pleasure"

Actually, I've heard the opposite. Since you're removing part of the penis' natural protection, it's exposed to a lot of day to day friction. This can cause it to become desensitized or cause the skin itself to become thicker and tougher - almost like a callous.

Now, I don't have a penis, but I can't imagine that'd be fun.

[Sweetdeath]

I'm pretty excited. I actually thought my whole view on circumsizing and anti ear piercing on a baby/child would be rawr rawred at. I'm glad you people seem to hace more sense than I originally  thought. *__* <3

I always thought it a truly sick and barbaric ritual. And the fact that people make a party/gathering of it is extra disgusting.
Why is this sick act so accepted when it IS TOTALLY UNECESSARY??

[Tank]

It's interesting that in the UK, where health care is 'free' in the sense that nobody makes a personal profit from it, circumcisions for non-religious reasons and health reasons are non-existent. Yet in the US where somebody makes a buck from the operation it's all but universal. Go figure.

Physical or psychological mutilation of children is child abuse. Circumcision should be stopped for all but valid medical reasons. Children mutilated by their parents because they happened to follow a particular institutionalised superstition should be able to bring charges against the person who carried out the operation for actual/grivious bodily harm.

[Sweetdeath]

It's interesting that in the UK, where health care is 'free' in the sense that nobody makes a personal profit from it, circumcisions for non-religious reasons and health reasons are non-existent. Yet in the US where somebody makes a buck from the operation it's all but universal. Go figure.

Physical or psychological mutilation of children is child abuse. Circumcision should be stopped for all but valid medical reasons. Children mutilated by their parents because they happened to follow a particular institutionalised superstition should be able to bring charges against the person who carried out the operation for actual/grivious bodily harm.

^
I agree with this so much.
I bet there are so many botched male circumsizons. That is scary to think a parent(s) is okay with taking a blade to a boy's genetials because of "spiritual belief"
Shows just how fucking dangerous religion is. Even worse when society convinces people this mutalation is NORMAL.

[Crow]

I wasn't going to post this as I found it highly disturbing and downright awful, but it shows that even though female circumcision is illegal in the UK it is still being practiced by some, with girls being flown abroad and circumcision being performed (which is also illegal) disguised by the 6 week summer holiday, or the cutters being flown into the UK and performing the circumcision on mass.

Serious warning on this this news report it isn't pleasant in the slightest.
The Observer - Female circumcision growing in Britain despite being illegal

[OldGit]

Tank's right: it's almost never done in the UK except for religious reasons.  It's another primitive and barbaric spin-off from religion.

[Asmodean]

Actually, I've heard the opposite. Since you're removing part of the penis' natural protection, it's exposed to a lot of day to day friction. This can cause it to become desensitized or cause the skin itself to become thicker and tougher - almost like a callous.

Now, I don't have a penis, but I can't imagine that'd be fun.

Well, you've heard what some of the more serious studies show, although why you need a study to show that 2-1=less, I have no idea...

Removing sensitive tissue makes the area less sensitive. How does less sensitive lead to more sexual pleasure? But then, I guess those people who mutilate their kids will cling to denial to the best of their abilities, thus believing in anything at all that even remotely suggests that what they did was good and right, rather than abusive and unnecessary.

There was a politiian here in Norway, who suggested making male circumcision as punishable by law as female. The same day as that became known, some hysterical jew was on the radio, practically screaming about how she [the politician] wanted to exile all jews from this country and how it was 1940s come again and the word holocause was, of course, mentioned.

Well, if it's more important for you to mutilate your kid than follow the law of this quite reasonable country, then go to fucking Israel and dodge them home-made rockets, for all I care! People who put their gods above their children can only be crappy parents, I think. Kids are supposed to be the most precious we have - more so than our parents or siblings, yes? So why the hell not do what's best for the kid, rather than what your imaginary friend allegedly wants you to do?!

You just suggest something reasonable in defence of those who can not defend themselves, and if it involves faith, you are (in this case) a jew-hating nazi who wants to throw an entire people out of the country.

Assholes!

/rant

[Sweetdeath]

I really don't want to get into the female aspect, considering it is only a way to show male dominance as in "you are not allowed to feel pleasure . Only reproduce." (also, this topic really gets me depressed...)
I researched it in africa, where it is practiced the most. The female clitoris has I think 8,000 active nerve endings. That says a lot.
Religion is  repulsive. No one can ever, ever convince me otherwise.

[Sweetdeath]

Yeah Asmo, jews love to play the persecution card as much as blck people love to play the race card.
They follow such out dated ways of living, it's seriously face palming foolishness.
Just like a doberman can't protest to having its ears clipped. An infant cannot refuse a blade to its genitals. Parents should know better. This is child   abuse. It is not as dangerous as female circumsicion, but it is JUST AS WRONG AND UNNEEDED. It is mutilation and abuse, and these moronic law makers need to WAKE UP and ban this practice.
/rant

[Tank]

I really don't want to get into the female aspect, considering it is only a way to show male dominance as in "you are not allowed to feel pleasure . Only reproduce." (also, this topic really gets me depressed...)
I researched it in africa, where it is practiced the most. The female clitoris has I think 8,000 active nerve endings. That says a lot.
Religion is  repulsive. No one can ever, ever convince me otherwise.

Actually in some Afican cultures female circumcision is practiced on women by women as a right of passage to adulthood that has nothing to do with male dominance at all. It's still wrong in my opinion for whatever reason, but it isn't always religiously inspired or an instrument of sexual oppression.

[Norfolk And Chance]

The most common defense I have heard of continuing with male circumcision is that all the other boys are circumcised and so he might feel like his penis is wrong.  People who make this excuse will then go on to claim that women prefer circumcised males so it might as well be done early since they'll end up having it done anyway.

I think peer pressure is a bad reason to cut things off...the boy can be taught how to cope with being different and how to respond if asked.  Also, such an excuse is operating on the assumption that the all the other parents are using the same rational and continuing the trend  Not to mention that there is no way to guess what location a boy will live in when he is a man; the US is probably the only place that male circumcision is extremely common (other than perhaps Israel).

There was a school of thought trying to justify circumcision on health grounds at one point.

[Tank]

The most common defense I have heard of continuing with male circumcision is that all the other boys are circumcised and so he might feel like his penis is wrong.  People who make this excuse will then go on to claim that women prefer circumcised males so it might as well be done early since they'll end up having it done anyway.

I think peer pressure is a bad reason to cut things off...the boy can be taught how to cope with being different and how to respond if asked.  Also, such an excuse is operating on the assumption that the all the other parents are using the same rational and continuing the trend  Not to mention that there is no way to guess what location a boy will live in when he is a man; the US is probably the only place that male circumcision is extremely common (other than perhaps Israel).

There was a school of thought trying to justify circumcision on health grounds at one point.

Well it might be reasonable for somebody to stupid to use soap.

[Sandra Craft]

There was a school of thought trying to justify circumcision on health grounds at one point.

There's also a school of thought in the US that baby boys should be circumsized because their fathers and most of their playmates will be and the psychological trauma of their weiners being "different" would be much more damaging than loping the foreskin off.  Also, the parents don't want the awkwardness of explaining the difference so it's easier for them to go along with the circumcision. 

Frankly I don't think little kids would be any more upset by different looking genitals than they are by innie and outie navels, and I don't think it would be that much harder to explain.