Re: What About Dignity?

[Tank]

So, they award themselves dignity?

It's not something you "award" yourself. Once you see yourself as having dignity, you have it from your perspective.

They judge themselves and pin on their own medals?

There is a subtle implication that there is something wrong with that. What?

Is it wrong to recognise one's own achievements and credit oneself for them?

No, not at all. Christians are dignified by their status in the kingdom of God. Because we have confessed our sins and been forgiven and try to emulate the person of Jesus Christ whom we put our faith in, we become, quite literally a more advanced being. God places us on a pedestal as it were. We become Son's and Daughters of God.

...Which gives you not a scrap of dignity in my book, but if it toots your horn, then it toots your horn.

If God is real, and He allows me to by his sycophantic pet, then I'm lucky and honored, because the sycophantic pet of God is a higher being than one who can't see God at all. Thus, "dignity." In other words, if God is real, you're not even a sycophantic pet of his. And that's a pretty low place to be. Isn't it?

No, licking god's balls does not elevate you over any-one... Just makes you a bitch to something you can't even prove exists.

I sought him. Like other true Christians, I was created by him and then with my free will and desire, I went looking for him. He turned on a lighthouse (sent Jesus Christ) and I changed my course to move toward it. That's it.

Why..? Why not just give him a big "Fuck you!" and go on about your life in a manner defined by you and not by your superstition?

Well, of course you are. You don't feel threatened by that. And I know you do feel threatened because you can't even spell out "Christ" you have to use an X. You do realize when we see that, we know you're a weak atheist. A true atheist would have no more problem spelling out Christ than say, Zeus, Odin or Ra, would they? 

Oh please! His (Or her... Don't remember who authored the quote) way of spelling it is an attempt at mild mockery of your precious lord and master. Don't read more into words than what is there - that's how people fall into all this religious nonsense to begin with.

Asmo. Please don't help set this thread on fire, or you'll end up baked solid!

[Asmodean]

Asmo. Please don't help set this thread on fire, or you'll end up baked solid!

Ah... Was just talking to you about it, actually.

A baked Asmo... That's like... Pottery.  Not nice. (Taken under advisement)

[Tank]

Asmo. Please don't help set this thread on fire, or you'll end up baked solid!

Ah... Was just talking to you about it, actually.

A baked Asmo... That's like... Pottery.  Not nice. (Taken under advisement)

You'd make a good paper weight 

[Guardian85]

My sense of dignity comes from the way I choose to comport myself and the way I am seen by my peers. I was a christian in my early teens, and I never in my life had a lower sense of self worth or dignity then back then.

Today I am a happy atheist. I have my own sense of dignity, I see my self worth and I have the respect of people around me. I found my dignity when i let go of the self delusion that is religion.

If diginty comes from a god, why do I have more of it now when I don't believe?
(rethorical question, by the way.I don't expect you to make a rational response)

[DeterminedJuliet]

OP, the entire pretense for your argument is your belief in God.

We are atheists, we have no belief in God, so can't you see how arguing to us that our position is wrong from your position isn't going to get anywhere? Unless you can get us to agree that there is a God, all of your "God exists, therefore" arguments are going to be beyond meaningless.

If this is what you mean by "not backing down" from an arugment, I can see why you get banned a lot of places. It has nothing to do with us and everything to do with the way you conduct yourself.

[Asmodean]

Asmo. Please don't help set this thread on fire, or you'll end up baked solid!

Ah... Was just talking to you about it, actually.

A baked Asmo... That's like... Pottery.  Not nice. (Taken under advisement)

You'd make a good paper weight 

The..! PAPERWEIGHT?! Why, you... ...
... ...
..! Come to think of it, a potterified Asmo paper weight is just one step from an actual statue, yes..? I need to put that in my will. That way, The Asmo will be FOREVER! MUAHA!

[Tank]

Asmo. Please don't help set this thread on fire, or you'll end up baked solid!

Ah... Was just talking to you about it, actually.

A baked Asmo... That's like... Pottery.  Not nice. (Taken under advisement)

You'd make a good paper weight 

The..! PAPERWEIGHT?! Why, you... ...
... ...
..! Come to think of it, a potterified Asmo paper weight is just one step from an actual statue, yes..? I need to put that in my will. That way, The Asmo will be FOREVER! MUAHA!

We could bake baby Asmo's and sell them as atheist icons 

[Guardian85]

OP, the entire pretense for your argument is your belief in God.

We are atheists, we have no belief in God, so can't you see how arguing to us that our position is wrong from your position isn't going to get anywhere? Unless you can get us to agree that there is a God, all of your "God exists, therefore" arguments are going to be beyond meaningless.

If this is what you mean by "not backing down" from an arugment, I can see why you get banned a lot of places. It has nothing to do with us and everything to do with the way you conduct yourself.

Agreeing with this. And may I point out that such a way of comporting oneself in a debate is not very dignified, making this discussion for you, Egor, the debating equivalent to shooting one self in the foot.

[Asmodean]

We could bake baby Asmo's and sell them as atheist icons 

Ooh! Ooh! We could start a sub-division of HAF called The Grumpy Atheist and incorporate The Asmo into the logo! 

[Sandra Craft]

I think "dignity" is an emotionally loaded word that doesn't actually mean much of anything.

But if you're going to push the issue, I'd say that it's largely culturally relative. A Western notion of "dignity" is going to be very different from a Japanese notion, or an ancient Greece notion. Personally, I don't worry or care too much about whether something's "dignified" because it's such a vague term anyway.

I agree, DJ.  Who has it and why is completely subjective, and whether its source is internal or external is a matter of personal opinion.  When I think of all the people walking about believeing they have dignity, while the general concensus is that they're pompous asses, and all those going about believeing they're just silly fools while others are thinking of them "there's a dignified old cuss", it doesn't seem that useful a concept.  I think if it makes anyone feel good about themselves to believe they have it, then by all means go for it but it's a self-awarded medal no matter what.

The..! PAPERWEIGHT?! Why, you... ...

I think a baked Asmo would make a much better pie weight, and be even more useful.

[Tank]

We could bake baby Asmo's and sell them as atheist icons 

Ooh! Ooh! We could start a sub-division of HAF called The Grumpy Atheist and incorporate The Asmo into the logo! 

That is such a great idea!

[xSilverPhinx]

What you're saying is that you can only feel good about yourself by convincing yourself that you have found favor in the eyes of, well, let's just state it as it is, an invisible magical man who lives in the sky.

No, let's not state it as you'd have it. I never said, nor do I believe, that God is a man, that he is magical or that he lives in the sky. That's your strawman, not mine. And if that's how you justify your atheism, then your atheism is ridiculous.

So, let's review:

- Atheists find dignity based on what kind of person they are and what sort of talents and accomplishments define them as individuals.

So, they award themselves dignity? They judge themselves and pin on their own medals?

- Xians find dignity through blind worship and obedience to a mythic figure...sort of like the Greeks worshipping Zeus, or the Vikings worshipping Odin, or the Egyptians worshipping Ra, or the ...

You get the idea.

No, not at all. Christians are dignified by their status in the kingdom of God. Because we have confessed our sins and been forgiven and try to emulate the person of Jesus Christ whom we put our faith in, we become, quite literally a more advanced being. God places us on a pedestal as it were. We become Son's and Daughters of God.

But even if god were real don't you think you could still find something more prosaic to feel good about than just being yet another sycophantic pet to an all-powerful lord and master?  You're not just proud of it, you're arrogant about it.  Why is that?

If God is real, and He allows me to by his sycophantic pet, then I'm lucky and honored, because the sycophantic pet of God is a higher being than one who can't see God at all. Thus, "dignity." In other words, if God is real, you're not even a sycophantic pet of his. And that's a pretty low place to be. Isn't it?

I'll respond to this: I rest my case

I don't know what you call that...dignity? You sure?

[Sandra Craft]

If God is real, and He allows me to by his sycophantic pet, then I'm lucky and honored, because the sycophantic pet of God is a higher being than one who can't see God at all. Thus, "dignity." In other words, if God is real, you're not even a sycophantic pet of his. And that's a pretty low place to be. Isn't it?

That's like asking which is better: being a lap dog on a leash or a wolf in the wild.  Once again, it's purely a matter of perspective and personal opinion.

[The Magic Pudding]

No, not at all. Christians are dignified by their status in the kingdom of God. Because we have confessed our sins and been forgiven and try to emulate the person of Jesus Christ whom we put our faith in, we become, quite literally a more advanced being. God places us on a pedestal as it were. We become Son's and Daughters of God.

Advancing towards what?
The spectacle of adults in their fancy costumes worshipping the non-existent never really struck me as dignified, much of what they do is quite repellant actually.  Passing off responsibility for your morals onto another, na, that's not dignified.

[Sandra Craft]

No, not at all. Christians are dignified by their status in the kingdom of God. Because we have confessed our sins and been forgiven and try to emulate the person of Jesus Christ whom we put our faith in, we become, quite literally a more advanced being. God places us on a pedestal as it were. We become Son's and Daughters of God.

Advancing towards what?
The spectacle of adults in their fancy costumes worshipping the non-existent never really struck me as dignified, much of what they do is quite repellant actually.  Passing off responsibility for your morals onto another, na, that's not dignified.

I think it's as much advancing from as advancing to -- they're advanced beyond non-believers, whom they are now better than.  To me that seems more silly than dignified, but hey, whatever gets them thru the night.