The hijab and us

[Sandra Craft]

Workplace discrimination complaints double

I'll admit it, due to my own bias when I saw the headline I automatically thought it would be Xtians complaining again, and I probably would have been less sympathetic, but it appears to be largely Muslim workers complaining and I tend to think they have a case more often.

The specific example in the article is about Muslim woman wearing a hijab at work, which makes her quite obviously Muslim and she believes this is the cause of her lack of advancement in a sales job, and then transfering to a new location where she was lead to believe another job with the company awaited her only to find there wasn't one and she was out of work.

There isn't much detail given for the other side, and that's not my main interest in this story.  I've noticed that there's a great deal of hostility towards the practice of covering one's face for any reason and I've never really understood this.  Yes, one shouldn't be allowed to cover one's face in a photo that can be used for ID purposes (like that Muslim woman who wanted to keep her hijab on for a driver's licence photo) but other than that I don't understand what the problem is or why people feel they have the right to see someone else's face. 

The usual response I get is that a large part of communication is thru facial expressions and I'm sure that's right but the inability to see the face you're talking to is hardly a communication deal breaker or we wouldn't be able to use phones, and the blind might as well be deaf too.  Clearly that's not the case, and to me the next most obvious conclusion is in fact religious or cultural bigotry. 

[xSilverPhinx]

I think it makes more sense in a setting where both identification is important and people don't necessarily know who you are (which excludes the workplace). Stores, or places where things can be robbed or crimes committed already don't allow people to wear things like motorcycle helmets for this reason. 

[DeterminedJuliet]

I think there is a large cultural element to this, but it's probably unavoidable. Clothes will probably always have a relative cultural significance, no matter how open minded we try to be. I could get fired for wearing next to no clothing to work, even if I don't fall into the (vague) legal definition of "public indecency." Employers are just hyper-sensitive about the cultural messages their workers send out and whether it fits in with their own business image.

That being said, beyond situations where one has to legally confirm their identity (using a passport, getting a driver's license, voting, etc) I don't care if someone wants to wear a bag over their head all day.

[Sweetdeath]

I just look at it as a safety issue. If I cant idenitfy you as a person, I am concerned for my safety.
Honestly, people shouldnt be allowed to wear those in any workplace.

[Tank]

The lady in question was only wearing a head scarf, not a full face vail. No reason, in the environment, for there to be any issue at all.

[Crow]

I wouldn't have a problem if an employee of mine wore one. If she was good at her job I don't see the problem as the hijab unlike the burka can be worn with any type of uniform. The hijab can look nice and stylish if worn well. Nobody complains about Queen Elizabeth wearing a headscarf or when fashion designers have their models wear a headscarf, so I see no problem with the hijab same bloody thing but with some BS religious association.

[OldGit]

The Burqa can be quite attractive:

[Crow]

@oldgit

lol, eff'ing brilliant.

[OldGit]

Thank you, Crow.  You should see some of the results I got with safe search off!  Just a bit too NFSW, though.

[Sweetdeath]

I love you, oldgit xDD <3

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Head coverings don't bother me, but face coverings do, for the reasons mentioned by several above, plus for the reason that it prevents full communication.  We don't just communicate with words, but facial expressions, body language, voice inflection, etc., play a part. Anything that inhibits full communication and expression in the working environment can lead to miscommunication and all its attendant misfortunes.  Furthermore, the face is the primary expression of humanity.  Covering it detracts from human dignity and introduces an element of dehumanization into the work world.  It's hard to respect someone whose face you can't see. They don't look human.

[Sandra Craft]

The Burqa can be quite attractive

I have a new icon.

Head coverings don't bother me, but face coverings do, for the reasons mentioned by several above, plus for the reason that it prevents full communication.

I don't see where that's at all true -- as I mentioned before people on the phone and the blind have no problem communicating.  I can't imagine anything in the workplace that can be screwed up by a missed facial cue.  I also disagree that it detracts from human dignity -- this seems to me a very personal and particular perception and hardly something that's a universal given.

[Sweetdeath]

I do agree that masking a woman's entire face is a way to dehumanize them. I'm guessing that's WHY they do it in the middle east. e__e

[Sandra Craft]

I do agree that masking a woman's entire face is a way to dehumanize them. I'm guessing that's WHY they do it in the middle east. e__e

I think it's a lot more complex than that, esp. as many women take it on voluntarily and I can't believe they think they're dehumanizing themselves.  Also, I've heard of non-Muslim women who've tried on hajibs and even burqas and said it made them feel safe and protected for the first time in their lives -- which I believe is the standard Muslim justification for it.  So, yeah, I think there's more to it than our cultural perceptions allow.

[Sweetdeath]

Ever heard of brain washing people from a very young age?
In Japan, men are raised to believe they are better than women. I doubt that is very far fetched from Muslim women being raised to believe they are to cover themselves or else "get what they deserve."
I digress...