Confused

[orangemoon]

Hi guys. I'm new and I needed to find a place to relate to people that lean toward my way of thinking. I have been watching many episodes of the Atheist Experience and I just can't get enough of this rational and clear thinking.

On the Dawkins Belief Scale I would say that I'm teetering between 3 and 4 which is:

3.  Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.

4.  Pure Agnostic: God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.


It's driving me mad to be at 3 and 4. But I can't help it. I was raised around the belief of God.

When I was very young I went to church with friends, they would invite me to their church and I would go. During those times I was "saved" about three times. But always, always, I had the thought in the back of my mind that something was seriously wrong with all this. It never felt right and at that young age it was damn right terrifying to attend a Pentacostal church and watch everyone scream and jump around like they were possessed.

Later in my teens my parents became more Christian - they started attending church on a regular basis - so they brought that stuff home to me in passive ways. I would never attend. However, a few times they did talk me into going. Those few times were Hell. And one of those times I did have the fear of Hell blasted into me with a terrifying sermon. Afterward, my mom talked me into being "saved". I accepted, mostly to please her, she looked genuinely terrified that I would go to Hell. That was the moment when I became compeletely anti-Christian.

Then I decided to read the bible so I would know exactly what I was rejecting. Then I decided to read up on other religions to see if any of them felt "right" to me. I became this huntress on a quest to find some sort of truth.

I have to say, that I am 29 years old now and I still have yet to find any of this truth from religion. I don't know if I believe in God now simply because I can't let go of the idea of it. I can't let go of that warm spiritual feeling that something grander is out there. Or if I truly don't believe. But when I really think about it - all my instincts lean toward atheism.

I am seriously confused and tired of being between a rock and a hard place. My entire family is religious. My brother and his family. Friends. I only have one friend that I can talk to about this stuff, that sees the same way that I do. But yet, I'm still clouded by God. It has never felt right to say "I don't believe in God". Any notion of NOT believing in God seems as scary as the prospect of putting my face into a pot of boiling water.

I'm already the black sheep of the family and I'm so scared of being rejected completely. By my nieces especially, that I love with all my heart. And I selfishly don't want them to look at me differently as their aunt. My nieces are 16 and 14 and have been raised on Christian values by my brother and his wife. I have never outright said that I am not Christian to them. My oldest niece asked me once, while I was driving her somewhere, do I attend a church and I just simply said "no". And she just responded, "oh". But there was a long silence. And that was that.  

I hold my tongue whenever my family talks about anything that I disagree with from homosexuality to creationism to myths about the non-believing community. I respect and love them enough not to want to change their insane ideas - but I also have the need for them to want to respect my ideas well.

I will end this really long rant with just... Religion really messes a person up. Sigh.

Thanks for reading.

[Asmodean]

Dawkins' scale, not Darwin's... Unless we are somehow talking about different things 

Welcome! I think you will find a few people here who share some of your views and experiences.

[Siz]

Welcome.

I'm sure that a short while here will help enourmously.

Seeing as you've read the Bible, perhaps it's now time to read Dawkins to even the playing field. I know it has helped many 'weak' Atheists become strong... in many ways. I consider the thought of a life without God to be something to rejoice in. And so liberating.

This won't however help with the family relations issue, but it may at least help crystalise your own position and give you the courage of your convictions to talk earnestly with those that matter most.

If you've not already read it, Whitney has an interesting post here: http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5111.0 which may help.

Good luck and feel free to chirp in.

[Tank]

Hi orangemoon

Having never believed I have to say I find your predicament a little difficult to understand, that's not to belittle what you are going through just that others here will have a much better understanding than I. For one to believe in what is basically a mythology is rathionally perverse, but I can fully understand how an emotional attachment can override a rational choice. You appear to wish to rid yourself of your emotional attachment to God and that will be difficult to do. So good luck.

Welcome to HAF

Regards
Chris

[Stevil]

Hey there Orangemoon

We have a thread titled Why God a bunch of atheists have given much input into guessing why theists have come up with, believe in, hold onto a belief in god. But really we are just speculating. You could offer some real value by documenting why you think there is a god. Or why you think people tend towards a belief in a god. It could be quite enlightening for us atheists lurking in the dark shadows outside of god's grace. Might even be good for yourself to simply organise your own thoughts on the matter.
Of course you might need to post at least 10 times before getting to post on such serious matter 

Where are you from?

[orangemoon]

Dawkins' scale, not Darwin's... Unless we are somehow talking about different things 

Welcome! I think you will find a few people here who share some of your views and experiences.

LOL. Yeah, this is what happens when you write a post at like 2 am.


And thanks everyone. I'll respond more later, but I must get to bed now. 

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome!

Can't say I know what it's like to be in your situation, since I don't live with people who are that religious.

What do they think about an all-loving god thinking that people who don't believe deserve to go to hell and suffer infinite torture and suffering?

[orangemoon]

Asmodean,

Thank you!!

Scissorlegs,

I will read what you suggested. Thank you!

Tank,

Thanks for trying to understand and welcoming me. I do hope to rid myself of it - or at least come to some sort of braver conclusion. It's going to be challenging.

Stevil,

I will definitely go over and read that thread and try to give my input, thanks!

xSilverPhinx,

Thanks!

To answer your question, I am not 100% sure, but if I know my brother (which is the most religious person in our family) correctly, he wouldn't care. His response would probably be that it's not his place to question God and then he would want to drop the subject. His response about anyone that's not a Christian is usually disdain, and his response to people that are Christian is respect and admiration.

[orangemoon]

Where are you from?

Southern California

[Tank]

Where are you from?

Southern California

BooksCatsEtc (Sandy) lives down there.

[Sandra Craft]

Julia Sweeney (formerly of SNL) has done a couple of shows about becoming an atheist after a lifetime of fairly devout Xtianity, the recent one is "Letting Go of God".  I think you'd enjoy it, your story sounds similar to hers.  This is an excerpt:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtIyx687ytk, there are bits and pieces of it are all over YouTube. 

I have to say, that I am 29 years old now and I still have yet to find any of this truth from religion. I don't know if I believe in God now simply because I can't let go of the idea of it. I can't let go of that warm spiritual feeling that something grander is out there. Or if I truly don't believe. But when I really think about it - all my instincts lean toward atheism.

I think most of us who have transitioned from theist to atheist have been where you are, so you'll find plenty of people here who understand what you're going thru.  By the way, I can tell you from personal experience that being an atheist doesn't mean you have no feeling of there being something grander "out there", it's just not god anymore, or at least not any human concept god.  For me, the something grander out there is the out there itself -- the universe is grand enough on its own without the supernatural.

[Too Few Lions]

welcome to the forum. You might feel a little messed up but I still envy you for living in Southern California. I'd kill for a bit of your sunshine (we don't get much here in the UK!)

Hope we can help you feel a bit stronger in your atheistic tendencies, a world without gods really isn't any less beautiful or wondrous a place. I'm sorry that your family are so religious and make it so difficult for you to express your lack of belief, and that you were subjected to that 'believe or burn in hell' crap. It's always seemed highly illogical to me that any deity would want to eternally torture people just for not believing in it. Any religion that teaches that is morally wrong and any god that would do that is pathetic and not worthy of your time. It's even worse when they start telling it to small impressionable children, at least you were older and wiser when they tried it with you.

I've done a bit of that whole 'hunting for truth' bit myself in the past, and I have to confess that I came to the same conclusions, religious books are just books, filled with words, written by people.

Anyway I hope this forum gives you another outlet for your atheistic feelings, and that it strengthens your resolve re your tricky family life. It's good to be the black sheep of the family, revel in it. And I really hope that your family aren't so closed minded that they'd seriously reject you over your lack of belief in their fairy tale!

[orangemoon]

Julia Sweeney (formerly of SNL) has done a couple of shows about becoming an atheist after a lifetime of fairly devout Xtianity, the recent one is "Letting Go of God".  I think you'd enjoy it, your story sounds similar to hers.  This is an excerpt:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtIyx687ytk, there are bits and pieces of it are all over YouTube.  

I have to say, that I am 29 years old now and I still have yet to find any of this truth from religion. I don't know if I believe in God now simply because I can't let go of the idea of it. I can't let go of that warm spiritual feeling that something grander is out there. Or if I truly don't believe. But when I really think about it - all my instincts lean toward atheism.

I think most of us who have transitioned from theist to atheist have been where you are, so you'll find plenty of people here who understand what you're going thru.  By the way, I can tell you from personal experience that being an atheist doesn't mean you have no feeling of there being something grander "out there", it's just not god anymore, or at least not any human concept god.  For me, the something grander out there is the out there itself -- the universe is grand enough on its own without the supernatural.

Thanks so much for suggesting this. Yesterday I played the whole monologue as I worked and I could very much relate to everything she was saying. At some points I had to stop working because my eyes were full of tears. Her internal thoughts are so much like mine. The part I can't stop thinking about is when she discovered that she didn't believe in God and that it scared her, so she thought about going back to believing. Then she thought to herself, how could she possibly go back to believing in God and have any kind of respect for herself. I just keep thinking about that part - and I was questioning if I have any respect for myself...

The monologue was with me throughout the day and I realized how much I'm conditioned to believe in God and I'm noticing the pattern in my own thinking. I'll give an example. Today I went to the store, but I was in a rush and I forgot a bunch of things that I really needed. So I said, okay, I'll go home and make dinner and then I'll go back to the store later tonight to get those things. Then this lady, that doesn't have a car & just had surgery called me and asked if I could take her to the store. I said sure, I was going to go anyway. Then my mind thought this in an instant: "Ah, God made it this way. I forgot those things at the store, so I could take this lady to store now." Then I had to catch myself - what - what - argh!! What am I thinking?! It's nothing. It has nothing to do with God or anything. She would have called even if I didn't have to go to the store. It's not God, damn it!!

I have this internal dialogue with myself all the time, but now I feel more aware of it. And I feel with the help of other atheist, maybe I can get a hold of it more.

So it's not about if I have respect for myself. It's just that I'm going to have to reprogram my mind that has been brainwashed. I have to separate thoughts and answer them with rationality. And it will definitely be a long process.

Thanks again.

[orangemoon]

welcome to the forum. You might feel a little messed up but I still envy you for living in Southern California. I'd kill for a bit of your sunshine (we don't get much here in the UK!)

Hope we can help you feel a bit stronger in your atheistic tendencies, a world without gods really isn't any less beautiful or wondrous a place. I'm sorry that your family are so religious and make it so difficult for you to express your lack of belief, and that you were subjected to that 'believe or burn in hell' crap. It's always seemed highly illogical to me that any deity would want to eternally torture people just for not believing in it. Any religion that teaches that is morally wrong and any god that would do that is pathetic and not worthy of your time. It's even worse when they start telling it to small impressionable children, at least you were older and wiser when they tried it with you.

I've done a bit of that whole 'hunting for truth' bit myself in the past, and I have to confess that I came to the same conclusions, religious books are just books, filled with words, written by people.

Anyway I hope this forum gives you another outlet for your atheistic feelings, and that it strengthens your resolve re your tricky family life. It's good to be the black sheep of the family, revel in it. And I really hope that your family aren't so closed minded that they'd seriously reject you over your lack of belief in their fairy tale!

I love California, but sometimes the sunshine is too much. I think the perfect time around here is the fall and winter when the weather is about 65-75 degrees - and it doesn't rain much, but when it does it's nice. It's nice where I am, because I'm about an hour away from the mountains and an hour away from the beach. So I can either choose snow or beach in the winter time. But in the summer it's 90-100+ degrees.

Thanks so much for welcoming me!! And I agree that an atheist can find beauty in things just as well as a religious person. It's something that I'm going to have to slowly teach myself... that the world without god, looks just the same as a world with one.