Getting to know YOU - Satanists

[Siz]

After seeing some of you guys discribing yourselves as Laveyan Satanists I was (I have to admit) horrified. Of course a short forray into Google on this matter put me right in short shrift. (Presumably 99% of the rest of the population have the same misinformed opinion as mine???). Ater reading up on it, it does look like an attractive way to exist.

I noticed that more than one of you guys has a particularly nilistic and pessimistic view of the world we live in. I wonder if this is common with Satanists, or if these are just a few individuals. I do not see a reason why (like me as an atheist) you cannot exist in a Laveyan universe with a happy heart.

Feel free to put me straight... I'm more than a little curious...

Cheers

[Stevil]

It does seem like a poorly named religion to me.
A Christian worships Christ
A Satanist worships Satan, well Intuitively that what a person thinks.
It's like the name is a long running inside joke that needs to be explained by people.
Hell, most people don't even know what an Atheist is.

[xSilverPhinx]

I also thought it had something to do with Satan at first, but then after Medusa added an informative link, I actually found that I have a lot in common with their way of thinking and that Satan is more of symbolic anti-religion and not a being.

[Whitney]

LaVey Satanism exists for the sole purpose of making fun of christianity...I don't get how some can take it seriously.  Anyone that just wants the philosophical ideas behind it could call themselves an ethical egoist as not have to deal with all the baggage associated with the word satanist.

[Siz]

Well, apparently it is cool to be controversial, right?!

But it does seem like a lot of effort to go to assert yourself as being you. Maybe, though, as an atheist I'm just lazy and just don't have the time to celebrate my me-ness.

[Evilbeagle]

My view of LaVeyan Satanism is that you yourself are the God. I don't see myself as an egotist.

Its simply my way of saying I won't bow to any so-called superior being.

I wouldn't say that most Laveyans are nihilistic or pessimistic. We do have a sense of humour.
Albeit one that takes a little bit of working out. 

I love the irony of seeing people who desperately need something to bow down to, it seems some folk feel a need to be submissive.

The LaVeyan denies bowing to anybody.

Our life ethic is simple, life on my rules, not anybody elses rules.

As for being a poorly named religion, I disagree.
For me, Satan is the ultimate role model and an indication of what anyone can expect from me.

Of course, Satan has nothing to do with the Christian antropomorphic character of "The Devil". That's just a bogeyman to scare kids with so that they wil behave.
But after all, it is my view that ALL religions are really methods of social control.

Being a Satanist, I neither need nor tolerate no form of social control. I can and will do anything I chose.
Naturally, there will often be consequences to my actions and the true Satanist accepts these willingly.
He or She recognizes that with true freedom comes true responsibility.

I disavow all who harm children & animals for their own sexual perversions.   
These people are (IMHO) sick minded individuals who need some serious treatment.
Saying "The Devil made me do it" does not mean you don't have to pay for your actions.

Of course, I can only speaking from my own perspective as a card carrying member of over 30 years.
I don't assume to speak for the Church itself or for other members.

Hail Satan 

[Siz]

Excellent, thanks Evilbeagle.

Do you think your actions/words in everyday life are noticably different from those around you? Or do you tend to conform to social norms for an easier life and so as not to invite the consequenses of upsetting the 'man in the street'?

You say that you "neither need nor tolerate no form of social control" (sic). Surely the consequenses of disobeying the law (in a legal sense) would land you in prison if you weren't self controlling (or friendless and ostracised in a social sense). Assuming that you are neither, I therefore conjecture that you are still subject to the same level of societal control as the rest of the Conscientious Atheist (as opposed to passive Atheist) population.

It seems to me that Satanism is an IDEAL of unsensored self expression, but in reality you are an Atheist who - when noone is looking - likes to do things your own way. Always in pursuit of personal gratification whilst optimising your ratio of gratification/consequenses is how you operate in this religious 21st century world, right? Hey, me too! Does that make me a Satanist sympathiser... yes, I guess it does.

[Evilbeagle]

Just to clarify for you:

I said" I can and will do anything I choose but I also said that one has to realise there are usually consequences to one's actions."

If I choose to break the law I am free to do so. Obviously repercussions are likely but that doesn't necessarily change things.
If I really wanted to do something that was illegal then I could. I just can't whinge afterwards at getting arrested.

Just being a Satanist doesn't mean though I should go out and do bad things.

In Satanism, you decide what is right and what is wrong. I don't let anyone else tell me what is right or wrong.
I help those I believe are in need when I believe it is right.

After donating some money to the Salvation Army one time, the collector was astonished to find out I was a Satanist.
To which I replied "Just because I am a Satanist doesn't mean I have no social conscience."

The S.A does good work in helping the homeless in the UK. Despite them being a pseudo religious group it suited me
to help their work.
I didn't have to as a result of a guilt trip or a moral obligation, I simply chose to do so.

I don't worry about "upsetting the man in the street" but that doesn't mean I go out of my way to piss people off either.
If social norms clash with me then I continue to do things my way. I am not worried about hurting peoples feelings.

Satanists in general do not share the herd mentality. We don't readily group together which is why there is never
likely to be a real "bricks & mortar" church for Satanists in the UK.

We are not worried if some people might choose to ostracize us.
Friendless ? Never, I just am not so clingy as to feel the need to worry if someone doesn't want to be my friend.

If someone doesn't like my opinions or they annoy them, they have the option to walk away.
I don't deliberately seek to "push my opinions down people's throats" nor do I actively go out and proselytize.

If someone chooses to engage with me in a debate or argument then they can't really complain if they find my replies unpalatable to them.

I dont do things my own way when no one is looking. I do things my way all the time.
If people don't like them, well it is a big world and they can go off and do their own thing.

Ultimately Satanism is about being true to one's own self. The core concepts of LaVeyan Satanism abhore hypocrisy
and say that at all times we should speak the truth and not wrap it up.

Speak plainly, lay it on the line.

Hope that helps ?

[Whitney]

evilbeagle...but that sounds like egoism to me; what is right or wrong is dependent on the individual.  What difference am I missing?  I'm still not understanding why someone would want to self label as satanist if not just for the shock factor.

[Siz]

Evilbeagle, Thanks.

I totally understand your motivations and agree with - and adhere to - most of your ideals myself. Godlessness does not preclude goodness.

It is certainly seductive to institutionalise personal gratification - very tempting, and a great excuse to act appallingly when desired.

Now, I understand your pride in not caring what other people think, but the very provocative chosen name of your church does seem to deliberately alienate vast swathes of people (including, apparently, Whitney). That can surely only serve to engender negativity - and that can't be helpful to you... or is that what also feeds your ego which Whitney alludes to.

Surely, extrapolating from the same tenets that LaVey expounds, you do not need a church; physical or otherwise.

Can't you just be... yourself.

[Evilbeagle]

@ Whitney: Yes I guess it does sound a bit like that. I was merely trying to explain the concepts LaVey described.
I don't know why Anton LaVey decided to use the name Church of Satan. Maybe he was after the shock factor, after all.
Unfortunately he's long since dead so I guess we may never know.

I have to admit I do like the provocative response that the name engenders from some people.
I have to admit I do find it rather tiresome the way some theists try to proselytize and find
that the word "Satan" kind of stumps a lot of them.

Unfortunately, a polite "No thank you" often doesn't work and people insist in trying to bamboozle me.
My soul doesn't need saving.

@Scissorlegs: I don't think I'm very egotistical nor have any of my friends so commented.

I guess you are entitled to have your own points of view and me mine.

Have a nice day.

[Whitney]

to clairfy...calling something egoism is not the same as calling someone egotistical; egoism is a philosophical ethical position.

[Evilbeagle]

Ok, duly noted. Thanks 

[Siz]

Evilbeagle, your social graces seem effortless. What can we say that'll illicit a decent Satanic response from you??

[Tank]

Evilbeagle, your social graces seem effortless. What can we say that'll illicit a decent Satanic response from you??

Call him a theist